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submitted 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) by Maroon@lemmy.world to c/selfhosted@lemmy.world

I understand that people enter the world of self hosting for various reasons. I am trying to dip my toes in this ocean to try and get away from privacy-offending centralised services such as Google, Cloudflare, AWS, etc.

As I spend more time here, I realise that it is practically impossible; especially for a newcomer, to setup any any usable self hosted web service without relying on these corporate behemoths.

I wanted to have my own little static website and alongside that run Immich, but I find that without Cloudflare, Google, and AWS, I run the risk of getting DDOSed or hacked. Also, since the physical server will be hosted at my home (to avoid AWS), there is a serious risk of infecting all devices at home as well (currently reading about VLANS to avoid this).

Am I correct in thinking that avoiding these corporations is impossible (and make peace with this situation), or are there ways to circumvent these giants and still have a good experience self hosting and using web services, even as a newcomer (all without draining my pockets too much)?

Edit: I was working on a lot of misconceptions and still have a lot of learn. Thank you all for your answers.

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[-] poVoq@slrpnk.net 93 points 4 months ago

This is nonsense. A small static website is not going to be hacked or DDOSd. You can run it off a cheap ARM single board computer on your desk, no problem at all.

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[-] hsdkfr734r@feddit.nl 52 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

One aspect is how interesting you are as a target. What would a possible attacker gain by getting access to your services or hosts?

The danger to get hacked is there but you are not Microsoft, amazon or PayPal. Expect login attempts and port scans from actors who map out the internets. But I doubt someone would spend much effort to break into your hosts if you do not make it easy (like scripted automatic exploits and known passwords login attempts easy) .

DDOS protection isn't something a tiny self hosted instance would need (at least in my experience).

Firewall your hosts, maybe use a reverse proxy and only expose the necessary services. Use secure passwords (different for each service), add fail2ban or the like if you're paranoid. Maybe look into MFA. Use a DMZ (yes, VLANs could be involved here). Keep your software updated so that exploits don't work. Have backups if something breaks or gets broken.

In my experience the biggest danger to my services is my laziness. It takes steady low level effort to keep the instances updated and running. (Yes there are automated update mechanisms - unattended upgrades i.e. -, but also downwards compatibility breaking changes in the software which will require manual interactions by me.)

[-] thirdBreakfast@lemmy.world 39 points 4 months ago

+1 for the main risk to my service reliability being me getting distracted by some other shiny thing and getting behind on maintenance.

[-] TheButtonJustSpins@infosec.pub 6 points 4 months ago
[-] dogsnest@lemmy.world 6 points 4 months ago

It's crowded.

[-] dogsnest@lemmy.world 14 points 4 months ago

...maybe use a reverse proxy...

+1 post.

I would suggest definitely reverse proxy. Caddy should be trivial in this use case.

cheers,

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[-] Oisteink@feddit.nl 4 points 4 months ago

All reverse proxies i have used do rudimentary DDoS protection: rate limiting. Enough to keep your local script kiddy at bay - but not advanced stuff.

You can protect your ssh instance with rate limiting too but you'll likely do this in the firewall and not the proxy.

[-] Darkassassin07@lemmy.ca 29 points 4 months ago

Drink less paranoia smoothie...

I've been self-hosting for almost a decade now; never bothered with any of the giants. Just a domain pointed at me, and an open port or two. Never had an issue.

Don't expose anything you don't share with others; monitor the things you do expose with tools like fail2ban. VPN into the LAN for access to everything else.

[-] MagicShel@programming.dev 28 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

DDoS and hacking are like taxes: you should be so lucky as to have to worry about them, because that means you're wildly successful. Worry about getting there first because that's the hard part.

[-] qaz@lemmy.world 7 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

You don't have to be successful to get hit by bots scanning for known vulnerabilities in common software (e.g. Wordpress), but OP won't have to worry about that if they keep everything up to date. However, this is also necessary when renting a VPN from said centralised services.

[-] MagicShel@programming.dev 4 points 4 months ago

Well he specified static website, which rules out WP, but yes. If your host accepts posts (in the generic sense, not necessarily specifically the http verb POST) that raises tons of other questions, that frankly were already well addressed when I made my post.

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[-] traches@sh.itjust.works 27 points 4 months ago

Use any old computer you have lying around as a server. Use Tailscale to connect to it, and don’t open any ports in your home firewall. Congrats, you’re self-hosting and your risk is minimal.

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[-] Presi300@lemmy.world 19 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I feel like you have the wrong idea of what hacking acting a actually is... But yes, as long as you don't do anything too stupid line forwarding all of your ports or going without any sort of firewall, the chances of you getting hacked are very low...

As for DDOSing, you can get DDOSed with or without self hosting all the same, but I wouldn't worry about it.

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[-] Evotech@lemmy.world 18 points 4 months ago

A VPS with fail2ban is all you need really. Oh and don't make ssh accounts where the username is the password. That's what I did once, but the hackers were nice, they closed the hole and then just used it to run a irc client because the network and host was so stable.

Found out by accident, too bad they left their irc username and pw in cleartext. Was a fun week or so messing around with their channels

[-] fluckx@lemmy.world 15 points 4 months ago

Talk about a reverse UNO card.

[-] JigglySackles@lemmy.world 18 points 4 months ago

DDOS against a little self hosted instance isn't really a concern I'd have. I'd be more concerned with the scraping of private information, ransomware, password compromises, things of that nature. If you keep your edge devices on the latest security patches and you are cognizant on what you are exposing and how, you'll be fine.

[-] Auli@lemmy.ca 18 points 4 months ago

The DDOSED hype on this site is so over played. Oh my god my little self hosted services are going to get attacked. Is it technically possible yes but it hasn’t been my experience.

[-] markstos@lemmy.world 6 points 4 months ago

DDoSing cost the attacker some time and resources so there has to something in it for them.

Random servers on the internet are subject to lots of drive-by vuln scans and brute force login attempts, but not DDoS, which are most costly to execute.

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[-] MangoPenguin@lemmy.blahaj.zone 14 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Getting DDOSed or hacked is very very rare for anyone self hosting. DDOS doesn't really happen to random people hosting a few small services, and hacking is also rare because it requires that you expose something with a significant enough vulnerability that someone has a way into the application and potentially the server behind it.

But it's good to take some basic steps like an isolated VLAN as you've mentioned already, but also don't expose services unless you need to. Immich for example if it's just you using it will work just fine without being exposed to the internet.

[-] jlh@lemmy.jlh.name 13 points 4 months ago

Self hosting can save a lot of money compared to Google or aws. Also, self hosting doesn't make you vulnerable to DDOS, you can be DDOSed even without a home server.

You don't need VLANs to keep your network secure, but you should make sure than any self hosted service isn't unnecessarily opens up tot he internet, and make sure that all your services are up to date.

What services are you planning to run? I could help suggest a threat model and security policy.

[-] Apollo2323@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 4 months ago

Hey no to be harsh or anything but did you actually made your research? Plenty of people self host websites on their house without AWS , Google or Cloudfare and it works fine.

[-] HumanPerson@sh.itjust.works 11 points 4 months ago

You can. I am lucky enough to not have been hacked after about a year of this, and I use a server in the living room. There are plenty of guides online for securing a server. Use common sense, and also look up threat modeling. You can also start hosting things locally and only host to the interwebs once you learn a little more. Basically, the idea that you need cloudflare and aws to not get hacked is because of misleading marketing.

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[-] GravitySpoiled@lemmy.ml 10 points 4 months ago

Why would anyone ddos you? Ddos costs money andor effort. Noone is going to waste that on you. Maybe dos but not ddos. And the troll will go away after some time as well. There's no gain in dosing you. Why would anyone hack your static website? For the lulz? If everything is https encrypted on your local net how does a hacker infest everything on your network?

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[-] Confused_Emus@lemmy.world 9 points 4 months ago

I host a handful of Internet facing sites/applications from my NAS and have had no issues. Just make sure you know how to configure your firewall correctly and you’ll be fine.

[-] just_another_person@lemmy.world 9 points 4 months ago

Firewall, Auth on all services, diligent monitoring, network segmentation (vlans are fine), and don't leave any open communications ports, and you'll be fine.

Further steps would be intrusion detecting/banning like crowdsec for whatever apps leave world accessible. Maybe think about running a BSD host and using jails.

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[-] vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 4 months ago

It’s very possible. If you carefully manage your attack surface and update your software regularly, you can mitigate your security risks quite a bit.

The main problem is going to be email. I have found no reliable way to send email that does not start with “have someone else do it for you” or “obtain an IP block delegation”.

[-] cron@feddit.org 7 points 4 months ago

email isn't that hard when you have a static IP, either from your network provider or via a VPS. Then, setup SPF, DKIM and DMARC and you're good to go (at least for simple use cases like notifications. When you want to send out thousands of emails, you might need more.)

[-] qaz@lemmy.world 8 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

You can simply set up a VPN for your home network (e.g. Tailscale, Netbird, Headscale, etc.) and you won't have to worry about attacks. Public services require a little more work, you will need to rely on a service from a company, either a tunnel (e.g. Tailscale funnel) or a VPS.

[-] Catsrules@lemmy.ml 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Public services require a little more work, you will need to rely on a service from a company, either a tunnel (e.g. Tailscale funnel) or a VPS.

I have been hosting random public services for years publicly and it hasn't been an issue.

Edit, I might have miss understood the definition of public. I have hosted stuff publicly, however everything was protected by a login screen. So it wasn't something a random person could make use of.

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[-] octopus_ink@lemmy.ml 7 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I have servers on Digital Ocean and Linode and also one in my basement, and have had no problem. I do have all services behind NPM (not to suggest it's a panacea) and use HTTPS/SSH for everything. (not to suggest HTTPS/SSH are either) My use case could be different than yours - my immediate family are my only consumers - but have been running the same services in those locations for a few years now without issue.

[-] kylian0087@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

If you are afraid of being ddosed which is very unlikely. Cloudflare has free ddos protection. You can put some but not all things behind their proxy.

Also instead of making things publicly available look in to using a VPN. Wireguard with "wireguard easy" makes this very simple.

VLANs do not make you network magically more secure. But when setup correctly can increase security a load if something has already penetrated the network. But also just to streamline a network and allow or deny some parts of the network.

[-] filister@lemmy.world 6 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

If you are behind CGNAT and use some tunnel (Wireguard, Tailscale, etc.) to access your services which are running on Docker containers, the attack vector is almost not existing.

[-] ___@l.djw.li 5 points 4 months ago

If your needs are fairly low on the processing side, you can snag a cloud VPS on LowEndBox for five or six dollars a month. Quality is highly variable ofc, but I’m reasonably my happy with mine.

No AWS, etc (though I don’t know offhand where the actual box lives), SSH access defaults to a key, and the rest (firewall, reverse proxy if you like, and all the other best practices) are but an apt-get away and a quick searxng to find and dissect working configs.

Incidentally, searxng is a good place to start- dead easy to get rolling,and a big step towards degoogling your life. Stand it up, throw a pretty standard config at nginx, and do a certbot —nginx -d search.mydomain.com - that all there is to it.

YMMV with more complex apps,but there is plenty of help to be had.

Oh…. Decide early on if anonymity is a goal,or you’re ok tying real life identity to your server if someone cares to look. Register domains and make public facing choices accordingly.

Either choice is acceptable if it’s the right one for you, but it’s hard to change once you pick a path.

I’m a big fan of not hosting on prem simply because it’s one more set of cables to trip over, etc. But for a latte a month in hosting costs, it’s worth it to me.

[-] ikidd@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago

Use a firewall like OPNsense and you'll be fine. There's a Crowdsec plugin to help against malicious actors, and for the most part, nothing you're doing is worth the trouble to them.

[-] BrianTheeBiscuiteer@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago

Other than the low chance of you being targeted I would say only expose your services through something like Wireguard. Other than the port being open attackers won't know what it's for. Wireguard doesn't respond if you don't immediately authenticate.

[-] Lifebandit666@feddit.uk 4 points 4 months ago

I've self hosted home assistant for a few years, external access through Cloud flare now because it's been so stablez but previously used DuckDNS which was a bit shit if I'm honest.

I got into self hosting proper earlier this year, I wanted to make something that I could sail the 7 seas with.

I use Tailscale for everything.

The only open port on my router is for Plex because I'm a socialist and like to share my work with my friends.

Just keep it all local and use it at home. If you wanna take some of your media outside with you, download it onto your phone before you leave

[-] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 3 points 4 months ago

If your SSH is using key authentication and you don't have anything silly as an attack vector, you should be grand.

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this post was submitted on 26 Jun 2024
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