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Here’s my two cents. It’s hard for people to keep up with the euphemism treadmill. There was a time when the word “female” didn’t have the negative connotation that it does now mostly thanks to co-opting by incels. It should also be stated that the word “male” doesn’t have the same negative connotations and it’s similar to how there’s slurs for black people but none for white people.

So why do people find “female” offensive? Well for starters it’s dehumanizing. Women is a less academic term and female implies some biological essentialism. I think the crux as to why it’s a big deal now is that women do not refer to themselves as females in the manner that men do. Men do not think of themselves as males, they do not call other men males, men call themselves men. male and female are simply outdated terms.

I suspect one day as society moves towards a more genderqueer position men and women will become unacceptable to say too. Idk. Like I think we need to acknowledge that there is such thing as a euphemism treadmill, that languages change, words become offensive or nonoffensive over time, and like all we can do in order to be a fucking decent human bean is to conform to society’s standards as to what is acceptable as according to the treadmill. Unless it’s some shit like calling the homeless, the unhoused. Then in those specific instances we got to run against the treadmill. But in this specific instance, we need to run with the treadmill on this one. Nothing feels better than conforming with society.

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[-] Stoatmilk@hexbear.net 10 points 1 year ago

Was using female as a noun considered normal at some point? I genuinely do not know.

But if it was, it might not be a case of a euphemism treadmill, but a phenomenon related to the struggle for social recognition. When an identity goes from recognition from an outside perspective to recognition from an inside perspective, the name for it often changes. A similar thing happened/is happening with homosexual -> gay and transsexual -> transgender. The takeaway in the context of this conversation is that, unlike the treadmill, it might not be a repeating process.

[-] 1nt3rd1m3nt10n4l@hexbear.net 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Was using female as a noun considered normal at some point? I genuinely do not know.

I think they used to do that in Coronet educational videos in like the 30's-50's. I'm not sure that it's ever been common outside that though.

Edit: That's these dudes btw.

[-] AssortedBiscuits@hexbear.net 3 points 1 year ago

Was using female as a noun considered normal at some point? I genuinely do not know.

No, it was always weird nerds who said that shit. Most people just say "chick," "woman," or "lady."

[-] ElGosso@hexbear.net 9 points 1 year ago

Explain to me how this isn't a dunk tank post and why it isn't in the dunk tank hst-gun you have ten seconds

[-] mah@hexbear.net 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

My opinion: people need to chill. and also to understand that English is used by different people in various contexts. Not everybody grasps the subtleties of the language. For instance, if discussing something like "a product highly recommended for our discreet female audience" or stating "no problems have been encountered in the department for female prisoners" is considered appropriate, somebody might feel that writing "To look at a female's behind" (as seen in the original r/therewasanattempt post) is also acceptable. And it's no big deal.

Also, it's a typical Anglo-Saxon harry potteresque LIB magical thinking, and obsession, with language, magic words and formulations. Censoring words just make them stronger. Stop being fucking puritains stupid ameriremoved. Scarlet letters never work. Changing words doesn't change the world, activism about language is just LIB slacktivism to feel smug and superior, and ultimately keeping the status quo as it is.

[-] Awoo@hexbear.net 8 points 1 year ago

The "you sound like a ferengi" insult in response to people saying Feeeeeeeeeeeemale has brought us to this point. It has singlehandedly been a phenomenally effective tool in pushing people into seeing negativity in the word and has done most of the heavy lifting.

[-] largerfather@hexbear.net 7 points 1 year ago

“the future is female”

[-] Othello@hexbear.net 7 points 1 year ago

its not incels my parents did that, and only when talking about women they dont like. Female is just what you say when you cant say bitch. also women do this too, women can also be misogynistic. my mom only called the women she hated at her job females "those females are always gossiping" "females cant get along, they all love drama" but her friends were girls or ladies.

[-] fuckahaha@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago

My mom says females and males a lot and is a feminist. It can be a little grating but I think allowances have to be made for older generations, especially when a lot of the unpleasant connotations are generated online

[-] commiespammer@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

idk it seems a bit trivial to me, but I'm just removed from actual struggles. So, feel free to dismiss my opinion! (no I am not being ironic)

[-] Tastysnack@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago

It will seem trivial because its something you won't understand as a guy. The closest I could see would he if a good portion of women referred to men and view men as just "penis".

Like If for your entire life people saw and referred to you as "a penis" and not a whole person.

That but like then add in generational trauma and a patriarchal society.

[-] commiespammer@hexbear.net 4 points 1 year ago

Gotcha. I do biology, so it feels a bit weird to people ascribing so much meaning to what would be dull, descriptive terms to me.

[-] Tastysnack@hexbear.net 3 points 1 year ago

Same and if you'd asked "STEM is superior, social science is not real science" Tastysnack then she'd agree but with a deeper understand of social issues and why I myself and other cis and trans women felt such ick hearing "female" it became clear.

We all live and learn.

[-] ZapataCadabra@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago

Where does "girlboss" fall in the struggle session?

[-] Brak@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago

it’s cringe but mostly just funny

[-] Piye@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 1 year ago

There's no slurs for white people?

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[-] Egon@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago

Those libs beat us to it? I was saving that for a slow day! ooooooooooooooh

[-] SpiderFarmer@hexbear.net 4 points 1 year ago

I gotta catch myself saying "chicks" sometimes. So like, I got my own linguistic issues to work over.

[-] OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You could be correct about times changing. A few years ago I was reading research papers on various topics, and words like r#####d and n####o were used with full seriousness. Even if it's silly that it came to this, it's what it is, and there's no point fighting it.

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[-] IzyaKatzmann@hexbear.net 3 points 1 year ago

Interestingly, my partner and other friends who are women and whose first language is not english usually use 'female'. It usually rubs me a weird way, since the only other people I interact with who use the word aren't the most respectful towards women.

In my mother tongue, the word for women implies subservience, my mom told me not to use that term when referring to women close to me, instead to use another term which is for endearment (cousins, good friends, etc) or yet another to refer to them respectfully.

[-] raven@hexbear.net 2 points 1 year ago

I found a thread about this whole thing on r*ddit and the first page of replies were variations of "What? Why would they do this??"
Not one actual answer visible debord-tired

People just do things for no reason because wokeness or whatever I guess.

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this post was submitted on 04 Sep 2023
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