Do you self defense? : lgbtq

[-] PerogiBoi@lemmy.ca 17 points 4 months ago

Ya I’ll spit out all the unique-to-me self defence tips I learned from my Jiu Jitsu class.

Crotch nose eyes throat. Attack em. If someone pulls you into a chokehold from behind use your back leg to stomp and drag your shoes down their knees/shins and lean forward to pull them off balance. Use your elbow and your entire body weight (whatever you can) into their stomach, swipe your cupped hand down like a wiper and slam their balls, then move forward as they hopefully let go and flick your hand outwards straight into their eyes.

Make as much noise as possible and absolutely book it away and run after this.

[-] SweetCitrusBuzz@beehaw.org 12 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I studied karate a while ago and have looked into self defense since.

I think the most important think is to learn how to control your emotions during any confrontation either using them to your advantage or learning how to calm yourself, heart rate, the adrenalin spikes etc.

Notice what your body is doing and work with it to either calm it or not be so uncontrolled.

[-] xilliah@beehaw.org 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

So deep breathing and taking it slow?

[-] SweetCitrusBuzz@beehaw.org 8 points 4 months ago

yes, though that's not necessarily possible in real danger so I also meant getting used to it for if you need to do it unfortunately for real.

[-] TexMexBazooka@lemm.ee 12 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I did Krav, Jiu-Jitsu and Muy Thai for a while. The biggest take away for me was the confidence boost, knowing with 100% certainty what I and my body can do.

I looked great too, but that was secondary

Buuuuut on the downside, I broke my collarbone and tore a muscle in my shoulder and it’s never been quite right since. Take Krav seriously

[-] xilliah@beehaw.org 3 points 4 months ago

What do you think about bluffing in case of a confrontation? Is it worth the investment to learn for the average person?

[-] TexMexBazooka@lemm.ee 15 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Bluffing as in saying you’ve had training? That’s a bad idea.

A huge portion of martial arts is learning how not to use martial arts. De-escalating, removing yourself from the situation, choosing your battles. If you feel the need to bluff you’re almost always better off just walking away.

One of the big lessons in Krav is that every confrontation is deadly. Not could be. Not might be. Is. In the real world it can only take one lucky punch to kill someone, even if the person throwing that punch is completely untrained. Every opponent on the street is armed, dangerous, and actively trying to kill you if you’re being attacked- that’s the mentality

You avoid fighting in every capacity possible, it’s an absolute worst case scenario. But if you have to fight? You be incredibly violent, dirty, and lethal. You aim to maim your opponent and get to safety- because assholes that start fights tend to run in packs. From that perspective them thinking that you’re untrained in an advantage because they won’t expect it.

Tl;Dr, I would rather bluff that I can’t fight than let them know I can

To answer your second question, yes it’s worth it for everyone to learn some degree of self defense skills, if only for the physical benefits

[-] xilliah@beehaw.org 4 points 4 months ago

Very interesting, thank you. Anyting else you'd like to add? I'm taking notes here.

[-] TexMexBazooka@lemm.ee 9 points 4 months ago

I mean it can take decades to learn any given martial art completely, but sure some more broad stroke stuff

Don’t under estimate anyone or over estimate yourself

A technique is only realistically useful to you if you’ve drilled it over, and over, and over. You have to be able to act on muscle memory alone.

Counterintuitively, the most talented and dangerous fighters will almost always use the simplest, day one kind of moves- but perfectly, every time because of the above.

If you haven’t trained to kick don’t kick, you’re just giving up your balance

The only way to win a knife fight is to run away from a knife fight

With grappling in particular, most techniques will revolve around position yourself so that your larger muscles-thing legs, core, shoulders-are working against your opponents smaller muscles- arms, calves/ankles, hands, neck, etc. that’s why technique can make all the difference if you’re at a size disadvantage

But size is still an advantage. If someone has got 150lbs on you, be faster

[-] xilliah@beehaw.org 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Thanks, that helps a lot.

What's your opinion on a lay person carrying a knife? What if they have basic training?

What would you recommend to people who want to know self defense for purely practical reasons? Follow some kind of workshop or take classes for a few weeks?

And well, now that I am coming at you any way with so many questions: what do you think of self defense spray paint that doesn't wash off, and or a personal alarm? At least over here real weapons are illegal.

[-] Gaywallet@beehaw.org 6 points 4 months ago

What’s your opinion on a lay person carrying a knife? What if they have basic training?

Carrying any weapon increases the statistical likelihood that you will die to a weapon. Owning certain weapons increase the statistical likelihood that you die to that weapon. This is because if you bring a weapon to a fight, the other person often responds in kind and being armed when someone else is armed means tensions are higher and they are more likely to use deadly force. In the worse case scenario, you lose your weapon to someone else and get killed by it. Training will reduce the likelihood of being disarmed and increase your proficiency with any weapon, but what @TexMexBazooka@lemm.ee has been stating with regards to anyone being a deadly threat is extremely true- real confrontations don't happen like they do in movies and even a highly trained individual can be killed by a complete novice.

If you're looking for a self defense weapon one of the best self defense weapons that exists is not deadly at all, but rather debilitating - mace/pepper spray. It requires no training to use, it can be activated very quickly, and it is very portable. Depending on where you live it is possible that it is illegal, in which case this is simply not an option, but in most countries in the world it is a legal form of self defense. In countries where it is illegal, there are usually other irritant sprays which you have access to which may not be as strong but will generally speaking do the same thing. Some sprays are also designed to be slippery in addition to irritants which can make holding weapons difficult.

[-] xilliah@beehaw.org 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

FYI I've left a reply

[-] TexMexBazooka@lemm.ee 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

To answer in parts:

What’s your opinion on a lay person carrying a knife? What if they have basic training?

That circles back to two of my original points:

A technique is only realistically useful to you if you’ve drilled it over, and over, and over
The only way to win a knife fight is to run away from a knife fight

"Basic training" for blade combat is "dont"

What would you recommend to people who want to know self defense for purely practical reasons? Follow some kind of workshop or take classes for a few weeks?

Find a local martial arts gym that specializes in Jiu Jitsu and Krav Maga. Go for at least six months, and accept that if you stop going your skillset and abilities will begin to fade almost immediately.

Remember: A technique is only realistically useful to you if you’ve drilled it over, and over, and over

what do you think of self defense spray paint that doesn’t wash off, and or a personal alarm? At least over here real weapons are illegal.

Pepper spray and other irritants are the closest youre going to get to a catch all self defense tool that can be practically, consistently applied without training. Thing to note about that, youre not using an irritant spray to fight, youre using it to buy yourself time to run away. It also has to distinct disadvantage of affected you just as much as your opponent in the event it gets you.**

[-] xilliah@beehaw.org 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I've been watching a few hours of videos and doing daily drills, and have planned to spar with a friend. I might visit a gym here or there, but can't do anything structured due to being a nomad.

Since I'm trans I get attacked a lot, but it's not so bad because it's mostly a certain type of person who can barely look straight out of their own head. Words work wonders for me.

Still, I feel it doesn't hurt to drill myself a bit from time to time. That's why I've been watching a few hours of videos and doing daily drills based on that. I've also planned to lightly spar with a friend. And I feel I have learned so much already. For example before it felt like an attacker would be a sort of flood light of hurt. Now I realize that power is applied mechanically, and I have power too.

I get it that deesclation is best, and that's what I have done so far. Training to suddenly sprint is a good next step. The level after that would be to have a basic understanding of the mechanics, in order to be able to for example get up properly and run. Someone already mentioned that grappling would be a good thing to understand here.

What really just puzzles me is what you guys are saying about weapons. You are really telling me that if I am in the forest alone with a guy, that a knife or pistol with basic training doesn't help me? Obviously I am here to learn, but what are you guys talking about? Statistics? Why can't I just shoot the guy in the leg? It's confusing!

Just to be clear, I can't use a pistol even if I wanted to because it's illegal here, or mace. But I might have a knife with me simply because it's useful. But still, isn't the best defense a good offense? What's the point of running if he runs after me? Isn't it better to break his arm and then run?

Everyone keeps talking about running as if it's so obvious. But I just don't understand, and honestly it's upsetting me. A clear counter argument for me is flipping the roles and me being the attacker and wanting to get something from you. I am convinced right now that I will be able to get you, even if you're a trained runner. But if you have a weapon I'd definitely think twice about what I am doing next. And if not a weapon, I am pretty sure hurting me in some way is going to get me to back off and find an easier target.

[-] t3rmit3@beehaw.org 5 points 4 months ago

You are really telling me that if I am in the forest alone with a guy, that a knife or pistol with basic training doesn’t help me?

Ah, for this, let me wind back a bit.

Carrying a firearm every day, everywhere is not something I recommend.

Carrying for a specific threat profile is completely different.

Situations where you think you may become an opportunistic target, for example, are ones where I would consider a carry gun appropriate, with the proper training.

Jogging alone at night, camping, hiking, etc. Generally, situations where you are likely to find yourself isolated, but it's not feasible or reasonable not to be there or doing those things, are situations where I think a carry firearm makes perfect sense.

Why can’t I just shoot the guy in the leg?

I highly recommend anyone thinking of carrying take a CCW training class, even if your jurisdiction does not require a class or even a CCW (i.e. Constitutional Carry state). They will walk through a lot of the legal issues around justified use of lethal force, specific to a given jurisdiction.

Just to be clear, I can’t use a pistol even if I wanted to because it’s illegal here, or mace. But I might have a knife with me simply because it’s useful.

In a life-or-death situation, you use whatever you have. If you have a knife or a gun, you use it. But we're talking about preparing through training. If your jurisdiction doesn't allow pepper spray, disposable tasers, or guns, then it sounds like a knife may be all that's left beyond martial arts, and if you're at risk, carry one and train with it.

We're not telling you weapons aren't effective, we're saying they increase the risk profile in different ways, sometimes to yourself.

You could use one to avoid a fight, just to get thrown in jail because a court ruled you weren't justified using whatever method you did. You have to find out what laws you're subject to, and what room they leave you. Martial arts that's almost never an issue.

But seriously, I would never want to be in a knife fight. Rather that than dead, but at that point I'd almost rather carry a metal baseball bat with me (and a baseball for plausible deniability/ legal cover).

[-] xilliah@beehaw.org 3 points 4 months ago

Wow thanks, that clarifies things. It actually made me angry this morning and so I did training to get the adrenaline out!

I think baseball bats and axes are illegal here too, unless you have a very specific reason, like going to training.

What I've learned from you all is that you need to drill something regularly or you won't be able to rely on it. So I've decided to play around with different styles that fit my lifestyle and needs, and to focus on one single attack and all that is needed to support it. I've incorporated it into my day already and will keep developing it and exploring.

I'll also learn to use my survival knife properly, including when not to use it, because of your advice.

[-] Gaywallet@beehaw.org 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

It sounds like you reached a conclusion you're happy with but I did want to address a few things-

What really just puzzles me is what you guys are saying about weapons. You are really telling me that if I am in the forest alone with a guy, that a knife or pistol with basic training doesn’t help me? Obviously I am here to learn, but what are you guys talking about? Statistics? Why can’t I just shoot the guy in the leg? It’s confusing!

I brought up statistics because I think it's important to mention. When researchers look at recorded violent interactions they are able to see certain patterns from which we can draw certain conclusions. It turns out that most violent interactions happen between two armed individuals. This implies that when one individual is armed and the other is not, that they feel a certain level of safety being armed and don't often escalate to violence as often. We can also look at broad strokes for weapon ownership in places where you need a license to be armed - and we find that people who get a license to have a weapon are more likely to be injured in a violent altercation with someone else. In short, owning any weapon increases the likelihood that you get into a violent altercation with someone else. What I'm getting at here is that arming yourself might make you feel more safe, but it can also be a form of escalation in an altercation. Someone who might be responsive to you de-escalating with speech might not be responsive if you're also pointing a weapon at them.

I don't say this to discourage you from owning a weapon, especially if you are a target. I'm trans too, so I fully understand being attacked and the desire to arm yourself. I think it's important to think about what kind of weapon you are bringing, however, and how those weapons are perceived. If someone pulled a can of mace on me, for example, I'm going to approach that person much differently than if they pull a knife or a gun and I think that distinction is important when it comes to escalation. Non-lethal forms of self defense escalate less than those that are lethal and some non-lethal forms such as defensive sprays are really easy to use, have good range, and are easily concealed making them ideal self-defense weapons.

isn’t the best defense a good offense? What’s the point of running if he runs after me? Isn’t it better to break his arm and then run?

I think you are underestimating the risk of getting in to any physical altercation with someone. Even if you break his arm, that may not stop his pursuit and depending on how close you are to him when you break his arm, it's possible he could incapacitate you in some way at the same time you break his arm. You causing physical damage to him may also cause him to respond spitefully towards you - the anger at you hurting him may bring him to injure you as a response to that, above and beyond the initial intent (or in the worst case scenario, inspire him to murder). Furthermore, in many situations he may not be acting alone and being good at getting away and drawing attention to yourself are much better ways to survive as social pressures and being seen doing illegal acts or pursuing others is usually a good incentive for them to not pursue. In general, violence should always be seen as a means of last resort, because that escalation almost always means an escalation in response, especially when we are talking about someone who already showed up with violent intent.

[-] xilliah@beehaw.org 2 points 4 months ago

Thanks for you care. I've thought about it and I understand now that I shouldn't just pull out knife willy nilly, as it is like throwing gasoline on a fire. But if things escalate from their side to a certain level, I'll be ready to combine the knife with my normal defense. And I am thinking only for counters here, so it is morally and legally right. I'll be careful.

Fun fact someone just gave me her knife. It's exactly what I needed and wanted. The type, material, the size, quality etc. It's perfect for camping, cooking etc and can be worn on the belt.

I can wear it on the belt when out in nature. I'll leave it in my bag in most other situations, and for sure when crossing the border. That way I always have a reason to carry.

[-] LallyLuckFarm@beehaw.org 9 points 4 months ago

I studied savate (French kickboxing) for a while, as well as some karate. The savate really did wonders for my flexibility and balance in a way that I didn't experience with the karate, and it also felt more applicable in the "real world" in the same way that krav maga and other close quarter / street fighting martial arts do.

To echo @TexMexBazooka, the real lessons were in de-escalation and knowing how to defend yourself decisively to enable escape from the fight. My savate instructor was very clear that any and every fight was a deadly one and that if he found out we fought instead of escaping he'd kick the crap out of us and then kick us out of the program.

I think there's also a benefit in learning how to take a hit, even though the goal is to avoid those. There are lots of body mechanics involved in fighting motions and practical experience taking and avoiding hits teaches you to recognize those movements automatically.

[-] xilliah@beehaw.org 4 points 4 months ago

You are full of surprises!

[-] t3rmit3@beehaw.org 6 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I generally recommend avoiding places that advertise themselves as self-defense training services only. Jiu jistsu, muay thai, and krav maga gyms will often offer self defense classes alongside classes for them as a combat sport or fitness.

Those are also generally the only 3 that I would recommend for real self defense, and in that order.

It takes a lot of practice, but it's also a lot of fun, and great for fitness. But like said elsewhere, avoiding a real-world fight by running is always preferable.

That's also why jiu jitsu is the best for self-defense imo; it's not a striking style, it's all about grappling, and if you can't run, it's probably because you're being (or soon to be) grappled. And jiu jitsu teaches you not just how to grapple back, but how to escape grapples as well.

WRT weapons, pepper spray buys you time to run.

Single-shot tasers (e.g. C2) are another option, but should not be relied on, because they may or may not catch the skin (they have little tiny barbs that have to basically fish-hook into someone), or be deflected by clothing, etc.

Do not carry a "true" taser, with fixed leads (also called a stun gun; your standard 'movie taser) for self-defense. It vastly increases the likelihood of it being taken away and used on you. A single-shot taser (fired immediately on draw) may not stop them, but they can't turn it back on you.

Knives are for attacking people with, not defending with. If you really think a knife is likely to be used on you somewhere, don't be there. If you do find yourself facing down an attacker with a knife and you can't run, you want a gun, not another knife. People don't realize just how... I don't want to say fickle, but rather down to chance getting stabbed is. You could get stabbed 20 times and they end up all being relatively superficially, and survive, or you could get stabbed once and it knick something vital, and you die. Not every important piece of your body is inside your rib cage. There was a stabbing in a mall in I think Canada where a big guy gets stabbed by another dude very quickly, continues walking normally for a few seconds, and just collapses.

Finally, firearms.

Firearms can be very effective defensive weapons (obviously), but they are an entirely separate set of laws, skills, and circumstances to deal with.

I have mentioned elsewhere here that I actually provide firearms safety training, and I'll tell you what I tell a lot of people who come to me thinking I'm going to tell them to train and get a CCW permit: my firearms are not for out-and-about self defense.

I don't have a CCW and I don't carry, because the statistical probability that any given person will require a firearm ever in their life for self defense is so infinitesimally small, that you're actually much more greatly increasing your own risk by carrying it.

And to be clear, the main risk is not someone taking your firearm and using it against you (that would by definition be at most the same probability as encountering a situation in which you need to use it), the main risks of a CCW firearm are:

negligent discharge, resulting in legal peril and risk to others
losing the firearm, resulting in legal peril and risk to others
improper deployment of the firearm (more often than not without even firing it, just brandishing), resulting in legal peril and risk to others

etc etc...

[-] xilliah@beehaw.org 1 points 4 months ago

I'll reply to TexMex (kind of annoying how Lemmy handles this)

LGBTQ+