13

My own knowledge on communism and how it was practiced by the USSR and Mao's China is severely lacking, but I work with a colleague who had some questions (most of them familiar, but I don't personally know the answer) and I said I'd ask some folks who'd know better; his questions were:

  1. Did people all have the exact same salary regardless of job?

  2. In positions that were similar and worked in close proximity, for example nurses and doctors, what were the differences in their salary if they had different salaries according to job? Even if a doctor made more than a nurse, was it noticeably so or only minorly? Were these salaries comparable to American salaries?

  3. If a colleague was completely lazy and did no work, did he get paid a salary, and in the same amount as hard working colleagues?

  4. I told him that under Mao, landlords were given the option of handing over their lands/apartments/additional housing and were executed if they refused. Was this accurate or was I mistaken? I'd read something here I think that said as much, or perhaps saw a youtube video about it but I thought I'd get a concrete answer to take back to him.

  5. He was saying that without a profit incentive, people won't innovate; what innovations from the USSR and Mao's China could I point to? I remembered some major stuff later on myself that were released for free and brought no profit to their creator, for example linux, but forgot to mention it at the time.

  6. Could someone start a business if he had an idea he wanted to pursue. I told him the government would own the business and himself and the other people working at the company would be government employees, but not sure how true this is.

  7. I told him people like farmers were effectively government employees and the produce they grew was owned by the government and rationed to the people, again, not sure how strictly true this is.

  8. If a person didn't want to work at all, just stay home and do nothing at all, what does the government do about it? Does he still have housing, medical care, payment to care for his family and himself, and a salary?

  9. Why did China begin to transition away from the communism it practiced?

Could you folks also please give me references to the answers to provide him with?

top 4 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] Vampire@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)
  1. and 2. – no. The idea that "communism is where everyone has the same salary" is a misconception

The Earnings of Soviet Workers: Evidence from the Soviet Interview Project DOI:10.2307/1928147 . The abstract says education and experience are rewarded. "As a first approximation,one can say that the Soviets use market-clearing wages to allocate labor."


  1. The USSR had two kinds of farms: sovkhoz were state owned where people earned wages, and kolkhoz were cooperatively owned. (In East Germany, these were called VEGs and LPGs respectively.) China collectivised farms under Mao and then decollectivised them later. Hungary and East Germany had their own things going on: including policies that you could hold a small amount (a few acres) privately. See The transition to socialism in China by Selden and Lippit as a source about collectivisation, or From Commune to Capitalism: How China's Peasants Lost Collective Farming and Gained Urban Poverty by Zhun Xu. There's also a couple of good books on agriculture in communist Hungary by Nigel Swain if we're talking about the whole Soviet Bloc.

I don't have much time, and there's a few books to write in response to all your questions tbh

[-] starkillerfish@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 1 year ago

just some thoughts from my readings. if anyone has corrections ill be happy to edit.

  1. I would be wary of the idea of innovation for innovations sake. If you do want to point to things, I'd point to the USSR space program. There are also numerous nobel prize winners for specific scientific discoveries. Also the internet in the US was government funded. The basic idea of innovation in capitalist mode of production is that the risks of development are taken on by the public (taxes paid for research, eg. vaccines), but the technology and profits are appropriated by the capitalist class.

  2. Depends when, but in later stages of the USSR you could make a small business. But to me the question is: what exactly do you want to pursue? If you have an idea how to improve a specific product you could petition to work at that specific department. Making new products would be under the jurisdiction of the relevant GOSPLAN department.

  3. Essentially correct, except there were complex (and patchwork) systems in place for purchasing and distribution of produce.

  4. There were penalties in place if you refused to work (fines, visits by authorities). You dont lose housing (you are always assigned one) or medical care (free) or payment for family (women worked in the USSR too + childcare was available), but you could get in serious trouble. The question here is also: why would you refuse to work? If you didn't like your workplace you could fill paperwork to be reassigned. You had vacation days etc. So a refusal like that would probably be seen as a sign of distress.

  5. Not easy to answer in a paragraph, but the basic gist is that after Mao the CPC changed quite a bit and saw the introduction of foreign capital and market reforms as a necessity for progress. I think the current CPC position is that they are building up productive forces before moving on to the next stage of socialism.

[-] Vampire@hexbear.net 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)
  1. If you are given an option of yes or no, and you'll be shot for saying no, you were never given an option. That's common sense.

  2. Russia under the NEP (New Economic Policy) did have the idea of profit. See The Economic Essence of Profit and Profitability Under Socialism from 1969 (https://sci-hub.se/10.2753/PET1061-199112013) and The Role of Profit in a Socialist Economy from 1963 (https://sci-hub.se/10.2753/PET1061-1991051010)

\8. That's called 'social parasitism' and was a crime in the USSR. A slogan of Stalin's was "he who does not work, neither shall he eat". Again, this is based on the misconception that there weren't things like wages and profits, like everything comes free or something, which was not ever the case. The answer to "What happens to someone who doesn't work under socialism?" is a bit like "What happens to someone who doesn't work under capitalism?" – they won't have any money, and then how are they gonna pay for food and a place to live?

[-] Evilsandwichman@hexbear.net 1 points 1 year ago

Thanks!

I wasn't sure where to find the answers to some of his questions and I wasn't going to trust what google offers me, but this has helped massively!

this post was submitted on 06 Sep 2023
13 points (88.2% liked)

Communism

9342 readers
39 users here now

Discussion Community for fellow Marxist-Leninists and other Marxists.

Rules for /c/communism

Rules that visitors must follow to participate. May be used as reasons to report or ban.

  1. No non-marxists

This subreddit is here to facilitate discussion between marxists.

There are other communities aimed at helping along new communists. This community isn't here to convert naysayers to marxism.

If you are a member of the police, armed forces, or any other part of the repressive state apparatus of capitalist nations, you will be banned.

  1. No oppressive language

Do not attempt to justify your use of oppressive language.

Doing this will almost assuredly result in a ban. Accept the criticism in a principled manner, edit your post or comment accordingly, and move on, learning from your mistake.

We believe that speech, like everything else, has a class character, and that some speech can be oppressive. This is why speech that is patriarchal, white supremacist, cissupremacist, homophobic, ableist, or otherwise oppressive is banned.

TERF is not a slur.

  1. No low quality or off-topic posts

Posts that are low-effort or otherwise irrelevant will be removed.

This is not a place to engage in meta-drama or discuss random reactionaries on lemmy or anywhere else.

This includes memes and circlejerking.

This includes most images, such as random books or memorabilia you found.

We ask that amerikan posters refrain from posting about US bourgeois politics. The rest of the world really doesn’t care that much.

  1. No basic questions about marxism

Posts asking entry-level questions will be removed.

Questions like “What is Maoism?” or “Why do Stalinists believe what they do?” will be removed, as they are not the focus on this forum.

  1. No sectarianism

Marxists of all tendencies are welcome here.

Refrain from sectarianism, defined here as unprincipled criticism. Posts trash-talking a certain tendency or marxist figure will be removed. Circlejerking, throwing insults around, and other pettiness is unacceptable.

If criticisms must be made, make them in a principled manner, applying Marxist analysis.

The goal of this subreddit is the accretion of theory and knowledge and the promotion of quality discussion and criticism.

Check out ProleWiki for a communist wikipedia.

Communism study guide

bottombanner

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS