188
submitted 5 months ago by girlfreddy@lemmy.ca to c/technology@beehaw.org

Archive link

Michael Orlitzky was not having a good day with his laundry. First CSC Serviceworks, a laundry management company, replaced all of the machines in his building with new coin-op or app-powered ones. The card reading machines had been an issue for years because the cards would stop working and the recharge machine would steal dollar bills, Orlitzky said. Now he had another enemy with its own quirks to get used to. Plus, CSC had replaced the machines about a week ahead of schedule, meaning that any cash on his or others’ laundry cards was now worthless and unusable.

Then, one of the new machines ate his quarters. The first machine was stuck on the cold setting, and he had to pay another $2 and move all of his belongings to another machine. He called CSC customer service and was on hold for an hour. CSC eventually told him to get a refund through the company’s website, which in turn insisted he install CSC’s app to proceed.

“That was the day I decided laundry would be free,” Orlitzky told 404 Media in an email.

Orlitzky then discovered multiple bypasses to CSC machines that allow him to wash his clothes for free. Since then, he’s been pretty quiet about the whole thing. Orlitzky published a brief write-up of his escapades on his personal website last year, but hasn’t shared it on social media. Some people in his building know his secret, but that’s about it. That is, until now, with Orlitzky due to speak at the DEF CON hacker conference in August about how he found infinite money cheats for CSC laundry machines. The talk is called “Laundering Money.”

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] ptz@dubvee.org 99 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

CSC eventually told him to get a refund through the company’s website, which in turn insisted he install CSC’s app to proceed.

That should be illegal. I already refuse to install most apps, and I certainly won't install one for absolute basic customer support purposes.

Lol, like, I hit a deer a few years ago. Insurance wanted me to download their app, walk around my car and take pictures, and they'd send me a check the next day. Nope. I made them send an adjustor. I'm that dedicated to not installing apps. 😆

[-] smeg@feddit.uk 17 points 5 months ago

"Download our app!"

"Oh, I don't have a smartphone."

[-] ptz@dubvee.org 12 points 5 months ago

My current phone is about 8 years old and long overdue for replacement. If I can find a dumb phone that can also act as a hotspot, that's probably going to be my "upgrade".

[-] Fiivemacs@lemmy.ca 12 points 5 months ago

Lol there's rental companies here FORCING you to download their app to pay your rent. Can't even give em cash or a check...has to be done through their app.

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 12 points 5 months ago

Hmm. They can't evict you by app, can they?

Somebody should make this hurt for them.

[-] girlfreddy@lemmy.ca 11 points 5 months ago

Double dipping right there. Make money on rent AND selling renter's data. Capitalism at it's best. :/

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] OmanMkII@aussie.zone 4 points 5 months ago

Read up on your local laws, in Australia for example it's required that 3 basic methods of cash, cheque, and bank transfer are accepted, may be something similar for you

[-] Ghoelian@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

This is not true. I've seen a lot of people from my own country and others claim the same thing, but so far every time I've looked it up for countries it turned out to not be true.

You just have to be clear about which payment methods you accept upfront.

https://www.accc.gov.au/business/selling-products-and-services/payment-methods

[-] bjorney@lemmy.ca 78 points 5 months ago

lol. Did this in my old building - the dryer was on an improperly rated circuit and the breaker would trip half the time, eating my money and leaving wet clothes.

It was one of the old, "insert coin, push metal chute in" types. Turns out you could bend a coat hanger and fish it through a hole in the back to engage the lever that the push-mechanism was supposed to engage. Showed everyone in the building.

The landlord came by the building a month later and asked why there was no money in the machines, I told him "we all started going to the laundromat down the street because it was cheaper"

[-] walden@sub.wetshaving.social 51 points 5 months ago

This quote is hilarious.

CSC probably has a record of someone opening up the machine. “My personal stance on that is suck my diiiiiiiick, but feel free to perform your own risk assessment,” Orlitzky writes.

[-] thingsiplay@beehaw.org 20 points 5 months ago

He was hacking the machine. But isn't it stealing and illegal, if he short circuit the machine? I mean its like showing someone how to get free apple, by going in a shop and stealing without anyone notices it. Or by hacking into a server and ordering a meal for free. I don't see how this is any different.

[-] Vodulas@beehaw.org 37 points 5 months ago

Meh, it is illegal, but personally I don't find it immoral. Laundry machines like this are just another way for landlords to extract money from their tenants for basic needs. They have them in a captive situation and should be providing either hookups in unit or free laundry facilities.

[-] Admetus@sopuli.xyz 10 points 5 months ago

'Free laundry machines' could essentially be included in the rent, provided laundry machines are used properly and intentional damage paid for. I would be okay with CCTV being employed to ensure this. An extra $10 for water usage, and everyone uses their own detergent.

But does that make sense for capitalists?

[-] Vodulas@beehaw.org 10 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

For me, rents are already pure profit for most apartment buildings, so they should just include it. I do agree there would need to be some incentive to keep them in order, but CCTV seems a little invasive. Not sure what the answer is, but I don't think landlords would do it any how

Edit: By "For me" I meant in my opinion, not that I run apartments. Tired brain...

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] Summzashi@lemmy.one 4 points 5 months ago

What stops a tenant from just getting a laundry machine themselves?

This is such an American thing.

[-] SpikesOtherDog@ani.social 6 points 5 months ago

Not all American apartments have water lines for the washer or 30a outlets for the dryer, much less dedicated space for the devices.

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] Vodulas@beehaw.org 6 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Hookups for one, you need a inlet and drain for the washer and a vent for the dryer. A place to put it as well. They are big and bulky. You can get ventless combo machines, but still have the issue of water hookups and space.

load more comments (9 replies)
[-] terminhell@lemmy.dbzer0.com 20 points 5 months ago

Isn't a machine taking your money and not receiving anything from it isn't?

[-] thingsiplay@beehaw.org 4 points 5 months ago

That's a different issue. The machine was obviously defective, not stealing your money. And even if someone steal from you, doesn't change the fact you stole too. Someone doing something illegal does not give you the rights doing something illegal too.

[-] terminhell@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 5 months ago

And to a point I agree. But the way the story reads, it sounds like not much was done with the new machines after installation. We've all had money taken from faulty vending machines. But the stakes are slightly higher in this.

[-] thingsiplay@beehaw.org 4 points 5 months ago

But isn't he abusing it further than just getting his money back? If you know a weak point on a machine and use it just so you give yourself the right to abuse it, is criminal in my opinion. The first time is probably an accident and taking back what is his own. Now he has the knowledge and is going with the intention to abuse a defect.

Let's say a shop website has an issue and one time the site was faulty and did take your money without anything in return. Then the hacker decides to break the law and get his money back, somewhat understandable, but not legally right. Still stealing. Then he realizes this loophole would be abused to make more money and nobody would notice. That's not okay anymore.

Or do I read it wrong here? The above analogy hopefully explains how I view this situation.

[-] jarfil@beehaw.org 12 points 5 months ago

Some businesses mess up... and understand that their clients need to feel like they're being treated fairly in order to keep earning money from them, which means giving their money back, an apology, and maybe some free credit or discount coupons.

Other businesses, think they can abuse their users freely... until they end up pissing the wrong guy. Sometimes it's a guy with a spray can, sometimes it's a guy with a brick, and sometimes it's someone capable of abusing them back.

You can call it illegal, it might even be morally wrong and excessive... but that's what happens when you abuse people more than what they're willing to take. Action and reaction, fuck around and find out, and all that.

[-] ulterno@lemmy.kde.social 4 points 5 months ago

You're right, but at the same time.

Let's say a website has an issue and was one time faulty. Clients lost money. Then the site owner is notified of the fault by multiple clients. The site owner uses some words to placate them and goes on with their day.

The site owner then makes some changes to the site, meaning they did have the time and money to pay a developer to update the site, but decides to keep the previous bug in, as a feature, implemented in a different way, this time better at stealing their money.


Sure, the obvious solution is to use another site (the laundromat down the road).


Anti Commercial AI License - CC BY-NC-SA 4.0

[-] Kissaki@beehaw.org 5 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

It's not the same kind of stealing as stealing an apple or meal. Those remove the product, the material in its entirety.

The only devaluation washing does is in wear. And even less directly in the initial investment not being paid back upon use.

That's concerns outside of morals of course. But stealing products isnt equateable to stealing usage.

[-] Railison@aussie.zone 15 points 5 months ago

If you have the room, you can often buy these second hand for a bargain from colleges etc. They’re built like tanks and you can wash almost anything inside them. When they do break, laundry operators try to DIY so there are videos everywhere on how to do repairs.

[-] regul@lemm.ee 15 points 5 months ago

If you have an older coin-op washer in your building you can usually look up the model number and either buy a master key or learn the default programming code to set the price.

[-] dditty@lemm.ee 10 points 5 months ago

My apartment building also converted their coin machines to CSC Go, so I've been biding my time until he reveals this exploit. They're $2.50 per wash cycle and $2.25 per dryer cycle, but if you do a big load it won't get fully dried so you might need an extra cycle. It's basically highway robbery even considering the water and electricity usage.

[-] girlfreddy@lemmy.ca 8 points 5 months ago
[-] dditty@lemm.ee 6 points 5 months ago

Holy shit what a mensch, ty! The machines in my building are the easy kind too, no lock picking required!

[-] smeg@feddit.uk 7 points 5 months ago

!chaoticgood@sopuli.xyz

load more comments
view more: next ›
this post was submitted on 30 Jul 2024
188 points (100.0% liked)

Technology

37826 readers
453 users here now

A nice place to discuss rumors, happenings, innovations, and challenges in the technology sphere. We also welcome discussions on the intersections of technology and society. If it’s technological news or discussion of technology, it probably belongs here.

Remember the overriding ethos on Beehaw: Be(e) Nice. Each user you encounter here is a person, and should be treated with kindness (even if they’re wrong, or use a Linux distro you don’t like). Personal attacks will not be tolerated.

Subcommunities on Beehaw:


This community's icon was made by Aaron Schneider, under the CC-BY-NC-SA 4.0 license.

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS