376
Abolish capitalism
(lemmy.world)
Nah, it's just filled with PR speak to make it look like there's ethics when asked
Reforms to restrain the rent-seeking class were always an alternative to the preferred method of killing them and redistributing their wealth.
relevant quote
The revolutionary struggle is the very antithesis of the parliamentary struggle. In Germany, for four decades we had nothing but parliamentary “victories.” We practically walked from victory to victory. And when faced with the great historical test of August 4, 1914, the result was the devastating political and moral defeat, an outrageous debacle and rot without parallel. To date, revolutions have given us nothing but defeats. Yet these unavoidable defeats pile up guarantee upon guarantee of the future final victory.
She's right, but given our situation this misses the point. The ruling class wants you to think reforms are a "replacement" to revolution, but we don't need to accept that premise. Reforms weaken the ruling class, otherwise they would already be enacted. So I ask, por que dos?
No los
I too am suspicious of the number two. Two faced mf
What if reform the classist society? Checkmate Luxemburg.
Abolish US crony capitalism.
You can just say capitalism
So do you have a plan to abolish capitalism?
Just one more meme will do it
They don’t have to. It will implode on itself eventually when it eats up the final resources available to it.
Can we figure out a method that won't take 95% of the population of the Earth along with it?
The idea that someone can have a plan is pretty silly (Pinky and the Brain silly).
The real question is do you have a plan to organize and survive when capitalism fails.
Abolishing capitalism will never happen in our lifetime, so you have to think smaller but more effective. What needs to happen is moving to a cooperative based capitalism, where a company or corporation is owned by all of the workers, with protection of independent unions. This will very quickly reduce the divide between the rich and the poor, as well as closing the gap between productivity and wages that has worsened since the 70's.
Do I expect this to happen? Fuck no. But it has a much higher chance than the abolition of capitalism, and has more support amongst people I've spoken to over the years when I've suggested it as a path forward.
Abolishing capitalism will never happen in our lifetime
Why? By all metrics, it is increasingly strained and on the verge of collapse, only accelerated in recent years.
Do I expect this to happen? Fuck no. But it has a much higher chance than the abolition of capitalism
Again, why?
Having spoken to so many people about this subject over my many years on this planet, the number of people that would actually want a revolution is so low that it's effectively zero. They don't want that kind of change. Having seen how resistant people are to give up their cars for the sake of their children's future, do you really think people would give up their many comforts to remove capitalism from the world? Fuck no would they.
But simple, small, understandable changes to the current system are much more agreeable. When I've suggested a cooperative approach, even the most resistant to change agrees that it would improve the situation for themselves, and that's a change that can be worked with, without others perceiving that change as coming from an absolute loon.
As others have said in this very thread, the western world is so resistant to revolution that the very idea of it will always be fringe. But cooperatives have been demonstrated to work, they just need to be applied to a much larger degree. It's understandable to the majority, it doesn't rock the boat too much, it's a feasible approach and it removes power from the top and returns it to the workers.
Having spoken to so many people about this subject over my many years on this planet, the number of people that would actually want a revolution is so low that it's effectively zero. They don't want that kind of change. Having seen how resistant people are to give up their cars for the sake of their children's future, do you really think people would give up their many comforts to remove capitalism from the world? Fuck no would they.
Capitalism's necessary mechanical contradictions that will lead to its collapse do not need the magical will or consent of the public to happen. Collapse will happen regardless.
But simple, small, understandable changes to the current system are much more agreeable. When I've suggested a cooperative approach, even the most resistant to change agrees that it would improve the situation for themselves, and that's a change that can be worked with, without others perceiving that change as coming from an absolute loon.
You can't get change just by getting people to agree with you, otherwise America would have Ranked Choice Voting, Medicare for All, free public College education, and legalized weed and abortion nationwide. You're repeating the failures of Utopian Socialists like the Owenites, you can't vibe policy into being, especially in a system hostile to said policy.
As others have said in this very thread, the western world is so resistant to revolution that the very idea of it will always be fringe. But cooperatives have been demonstrated to work, they just need to be applied to a much larger degree. It's understandable to the majority, it doesn't rock the boat too much, it's a feasible approach and it removes power from the top and returns it to the workers.
How and why? You're trying to magically summon these structures. How do you expect the ones at the top to allow this?
MLs have been predicting the "inevitable" collapse of capitalism for a century now. When can we expect some progress? :p
You can’t get change just by getting people to agree with you, otherwise America would have Ranked Choice Voting, Medicare for All, free public College education, and legalized weed and abortion nationwide.
I think this is great point. In spite of majority public support for issues like these, it's seemingly impossible to get either party to take action. That's not how healthy democracies are supposed to work. I'd probably agree that public support is a pre-requisite for change, but it's not always sufficient. If the public want something and the government don't agree (say, over suspending arms shipments to Israel), what can the public actually do about it? Really nothing, other than disruptive protests or taking direct action to physically stop the shipments. And then it's obvious what would happen to the protestors.
MLs have been predicting the "inevitable" collapse of capitalism for a century now. When can we expect some progress? :p
I mean, regardless of what anyone individually or collectively wills, disparity is rising, wages are stagnating with respect to productivity, and enshittification is continuing. The logic and math behind Capitalism's unsustainability hasn't changed. Monopoly and Financial Capital are growing ever-more grotesque and are crushed under their own weight in search of endless growth. The fact that the US hasn't collapsed yet doesn't mean it hasn't been working towards that collapse.
I think this is great point. In spite of majority public support for issues like these, it's seemingly impossible to get either party to take action. That's not how healthy democracies are supposed to work. I'd probably agree that public support is a pre-requisite for change, but it's not always sufficient. If the public want something and the government don't agree (say, over suspending arms shipments to Israel), what can the public actually do about it? Really nothing, other than disruptive protests or taking direct action to physically stop the shipments. And then it's obvious what would happen to the protestors.
That's why the Owenites and Utopian Socialists all failed. They thought they could just convince everyone of a better path, and that it would magically appear and form around them.
Revolution. Build up dual power and destabilize the existing system from the outside, rather than grinding yourself to dust trying to work it out from within the system.
im not looking to abolish capitalism just limit it to things that don't really matter. like how nice a tv folks have.
this post was submitted on 31 Aug 2024
376 points (92.0% liked)
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