What device can rotate a knob and works with HA? (feddit.it)

submitted 2 months ago by Moonrise2473@feddit.it to c/homeassistant@lemmy.world

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I was accidentally locked out of home again, and I had to call a professional to open the lock.

But if someone was home, they could have just turned the knob of the door from inside. There's a device that can do that? It needs to do 3 full turns and it requires a bit of force to do that (armored door with iron bars that slide in every direction, so it has a big inertia to start)

I saw a ready solution on a store, the iseo x1r, but that costs 1000 euro + another 200 for the gateway (not mandatory but otherwise it uses proprietary Bluetooth protocol and so it can't talk with HA

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[-] megaman@discuss.tchncs.de 29 points 2 months ago

It sounds like you have a heavy duty door lock to be very secure, but you are essentially trying to backdoor all that security with a new internet-connected thing. An adversary only has to break the weakest link here, rendering the physical door lock obsolete.

If you are just going to have some digitally-connected device ultimately controlling access to the house, I'd go with just some standard door lock that does that (i haven't used em but they exist). The physical lock on those is surely less what you have know, but with your proposed solution the physical lock probably isnt what people who crack anyway.

[-] credo@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

Yes, but now you’re weakening two aspects of the security, not just one. And for the digital solution you would also need to (break into the network + break into HA) -or- (break zigbee/zwave/thread) + be physically present to take advantage. I would argue this is generally more secure than a mass-produced lock with unknown vulnerabilities that’s easily recognizable from outside.

[-] Observer1199@lemmy.ml 21 points 2 months ago

How do you keep getting locked out? Would it not be easier to remember your keys when you go outside?

[-] originalfrozenbanana@lemm.ee 18 points 2 months ago

No no, surely the solution to this is a mechanical one

[-] Moonrise2473@feddit.it 1 points 2 months ago

I thought I had keys in my pocket, instead it was a different bunch. The keys were inserted in the socket from the inside, it doesn't allow to insert the key from the other side, so I couldn't use the backup pair that I keep in a separate location

[-] Observer1199@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 months ago

Is the door locking mechanism something you can change? If so you could change it to one that doesn't lock when it's closed, only when a key is used.

[-] Moonrise2473@feddit.it 3 points 2 months ago

Technically, yes, but I'm a bit lazy. If I can overengineer a workaround...

[-] AA5B@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Why not both? More automation is definitely cool, but also make the door work better for you. I hate that style of lock

First thing I did when I moved into my current home is to replace deadbolt with a key inside with a standard deadbolt with an inside knob

better for emergencies - can always get out easily
less likely to get locked out - does not lock automatically; from outside, I must have keys to lock door as I’m leaving

[-] captainastronaut@seattlelunarsociety.org 11 points 2 months ago

Maybe just a spare key in a hidden lockbox outside?

You could also look at these.

https://candyhouse.co

With the WiFi add on it’s HA compatible.

[-] wildbus8979@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 months ago

Does it work in local only ?

[-] captainastronaut@seattlelunarsociety.org 2 points 2 months ago

In Bluetooth mode yes.

[-] wildbus8979@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

But that's not with HA integration, still using a proprietary app. Lame

At some point way back when, Adafeuit was selling empty shells of the original lockitron... I really wished I'd gotten one of those!

[-] just_another_person@lemmy.world 9 points 2 months ago

The issue is going to be that you need 3 full turns. It also sounds like you're not actually describing a "knob", meaning a normal doorknob, but some sort of metal wheel.

Picture may be more helpful, but it certainly sounds like nothing would exist for this.

[-] AbidingOhmsLaw@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 months ago

If you have some electronic skill you can use espHome on a esp32 microcontroller to control an RC Servo motor.

https://esphome.io/components/servo.html

If you want out-of-box there are several electronic locks that will work.

https://community.home-assistant.io/t/smart-locks-compatible-with-home-assistant/590662

[-] Prunebutt@slrpnk.net 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

RC Servo motor

My guess is that a servo will probably be a bit too weak for that. They'll propably need a stepper motor.

[-] AbidingOhmsLaw@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Depends on the lock being actuated and the torque of the servo, I have some that can do 4.4 N-m.

https://www.amazon.com/high-torque-servo/s?k=high+torque+servo

A stepper motor would also work for sure.

[-] Prunebutt@slrpnk.net 1 points 2 months ago

TIL about high torque servos.

[-] ulterno@lemmy.kde.social 0 points 2 months ago

Gears !!!

Read that with elongated syllables, sparkles and reverb

[-] Oisteink@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

What kind of servo would you use with gears and still enable 3 x 360 degree revolution?

[-] ulterno@lemmy.kde.social 0 points 2 months ago

Oopsie! You're right. No way.

[-] Moonrise2473@feddit.it 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Thanks for the link, in that thread I found two promising products, Nuki and tedee.

One is small and stylish but uses a tiny expensive single use battery, the other is plasticly and bulky but uses 4 standard AAs

I'll check specs carefully to see if they have enough torque

Edit: the 190 euro Nuki lock is advertised as "matter/thread compatible" but you need to pay a 50 euro in-app purchase in order to enable it. This is not stated anywhere, including the user manual, website and support faq. I discovered that from a YouTube review

[-] jeroenvaes@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

I have a previous version Nuki with a keypad. I think it works great, also locks my door automatically at night. I don't have it connected to anything else however, to limit attack surfaces. You can still use the app, as it uses bluetooth. That in-app purchase is pretty shitty, though the lock itself is not that expensive compared to competitors. I would advise to search for discount codes or wait for promotions, which happen frequently.

Do remember that it requires a key into the cilinder on the inside, so if you don't have a double cylinder you can't use your key on the outside. Which means you can lock yourself out when the batteries die. You should get a cylinder with an emergency function, so you can use a key on one side when a key is present on the other side.

[-] Moonrise2473@feddit.it 2 points 2 months ago

Yes my cylinder isn't compatible, it won't allow inserting a key from the other side. But I saw they sell a replacement one for 100 euro

Not being internet connected isn't the end of the world, but that hidden expensive in-app purchase is really scammy because you would only notice that after you bought the device, after installation and probably even after the return window. All YouTube reviewers got the pro model, which doesn't have this artificial limitation. If I didn't watch that video, I would noticed that after years (I don't have enough matter/thread devices to justify the purchase of a hub yet)

And also the door opening sensor isn't included in the box but of course YouTube reviewers are showing it as part of the kit because they got all included. And the product page doesn't specify that explicitly.

Searched the user manual in PDF to learn more about the product, it's 4 sentences that explain absolutely nothing

So in the end I wanted the base model over the pro because for me having 4 AAs instead of a "proprietary" battery pack (4 AAs in a custom plastic shell) is much better and giving direct full internet access to the door lock via WiFi is too scary... but between the missing opening sensor, the IAP, the build quality, I think I will choose another one

[-] jeroenvaes@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

Yeah, charging 50$ to enable hardware they already sold to you is quite something. My model didn't have that option, it only has a bluetooth radio.

Can't complain about the build quality though. It's been rock solid for more than 2 years now, running on 4 rechargeable batteries which seem to last quite long. My first device was from a batch that apparently had radio problems that didn't affect me, but they replaced it proactively anyway. Can't really say anything bad about them from personal experience...

[-] normalexit@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago

It's not high tech, but a door lock with a simple pin pad has been great at my house. Never have to worry about having keys or getting locked out. Just have to change some batteries every six months or so. This isn't Internet connected, but I see that as a benefit.

[-] rutrum@lm.paradisus.day 3 points 2 months ago

Can you share pics with this door? How do you walk outside and have it lock behind you?

[-] Moonrise2473@feddit.it 4 points 2 months ago

When you close it, it's not possible* to open it again from outside

* = only the triangular piece engages, so a professional can unlock it from outside by using a thin sheet of steel

[-] Lifebandit666@feddit.uk 6 points 2 months ago

I think you should have a thin sheet of steel kept in your car or somewhere safe, so you can just use that like a locksmith.

[-] brisk@aussie.zone 6 points 2 months ago

I can't help you but I'm fascinated by your door now. Does this door/lock have a name? How did you end up with such an elaborate mechanism?

[-] captainastronaut@seattlelunarsociety.org 3 points 2 months ago

Wow. Do you live in a bank vault? That’s a serious door!

[-] Plopp@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago

I keep all my money in my mattress. All of the $52.

[-] Moonrise2473@feddit.it 2 points 2 months ago

There are so many burglars here that this kind of door is the standard in any apartment

[-] Cinnamon_spanktower@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

Yea, I've seen these in Italy, you 100% need a key to open from the outside.

[-] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 2 points 2 months ago

If you don’t mind me asking, why do you have such a door in your home?

[-] ThePantser@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago

Lives in a bank vault.

[-] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 1 points 2 months ago

As one does.

[-] jonne@infosec.pub 1 points 2 months ago

https://www.switch-bot.com/products/switchbot-lock

Not sure if it's compatible with your particular lock, but I've got switchbot stuff integrated into home assistant without issue (using their hub).

[-] Moonrise2473@feddit.it 2 points 2 months ago

Nice this looks compatibile, except for the open sensor, my door has an ultra thick frame and it's only possible to install it at 12 cm, while the guide says 4 cm max. Does it really need it?

[-] JaddedFauceet@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

It is used to detect closing of door and lock the door once it is closed. You may need it during the initial setup. as long as it can be placed close to the door lock, it should work ok.

otherwise, once integrated with HA, you can probably use your own contact sensor and trigger door lock using HA

btw, i am using ESPHome bluetooth proxy with Switchbot

[-] ulterno@lemmy.kde.social 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I'd rather switch to a lock that doesn't lock automatically and captures the key, when open.

Ok, the latter is probably a bad idea for a fixed lock. Works pretty well for a padlock.

[-] Oisteink@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

How about a retrofit smart lock?

this post was submitted on 15 Sep 2024

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