this is lame, mod.
just because you don't agree with post doesn't mean it is not useful for discussion. are you so afraid of any kind of opposition?
@14th_cylon @SteveKLord “A study from the University of Westminster, London, found that cargo bikes not only deliver faster than vans but also cut emissions by 90 per cent compared to diesel vans and when compared to electric vans reduce emissions by a third. “
found that cargo bikes not only deliver faster than vans
that must have been some seriously specific circumstances.
Specific as being in an European city.
Not enough space for stopped vans everywhere.
@14th_cylon @SteveKLord Which cargo bike models are the same size as delivery vans but with 1/50th of the capacity?
which cargo bike model has the same or better capacity as the van per footprint per time spent on the road?
Cargo bikes don't need roads.
Ridiculousness.
I've used a cargo bike for my 60+ seat restaurant for over 5 years and I zip past all the idiots sitting traffic baking away in 30° August as our town goes from 70k to 350k with the traffic that comes with it.
Absolutely absurd that you're hot take is something other than troll bait.
you own 60+ seat restaurant and you have time to do your own delivery? that is very trustworthy comment ;)
Look at any restaurant at any city in Europe.
You can't even park a van for streets sometimes.
i will ignore that you are not person i was asking and this is not an answer to my question and i will answer to this irrelevant randomly placed piece of information.
You can’t even park a van for streets sometimes.
and you can park cargo bike there? how are you going to do that? do the parked cars suddenly disappear?
or are going to just illegally park it on the sidewalk, because rules don't apply to you? do you think people will still tolerate it when there isn't going to be one bike parked on the sidewalk, but twenty?
the think is, you (general you, not you personally) always think some problems don't affect bikes, just because they are rather curiosity right now.
if you had successfully managed to replace all delivery vans with cargo bikes, you would put on surprised pikachu face finding you actually need more parking space than before.
Are you suffering from an acute case of brain damage?
so, we take something that has the same size as a van,
The footprint of a cargo bike is at most a fourth of your average delivery van
and is at least 10 times slower
Cargo bikes are usually e-bikes, giving them a speed of at least 25 km/h. If you're driving a van at 250 km/h in a city, that's going to put you behind bars.
Baffling levels of ignorance.
The footprint of a cargo bike is at most a fourth of your average delivery van
yeah, no. the cargo bike needs width of a car lane and its not four times shorter. it will actually add to congestion when every car behind it has to change lane to go around.
maybe you have some really generous bike lanes somewhere, but they don't lead to home of every one of your potential customer and, surprise, they also take a space.
Cargo bikes are usually e-bikes, giving them a speed of at least 25 km/h.
that's top speed. top speed of the car is somewhere else. and the average speed for both of them is somewhere else and if you believe that average speed of a bike is going to be in the same category as average speed of the car, then go, fly back to other pigeons and tell them you won.
cargo bike is not efficient alternative to a car, because it is far slower and has much lower capacity than the car, so you will deliver less cargo in longer time. or same cargo in same time using a LOT MORE bikes.
that doesn’t mean and i never said they don’t have its use-cases, but claiming it will solve the traffic congestion is wild exaggeration.
If anything, electric bikes and scooters tend to get around FASTER than cars in European city centers
yes, that may be true in specific circumstances.
if they can fit in between two cars, waiting on light stop, they can get ahead of them. that maybe true in traffic jam in city center.
this advantage goes away once:
- you are outside of traffic jam hour
- you are outside of traffic jam area (out of city center)
- you are driving cargo bike that does not allow you to squeeze in between two cars.
so not really useful for discussion about cargo bikes, is it?
I was so confused with your comment until i remembered there are countries without bike lanes. Still weird to claim them the same size as a van
this monstrosity, that can fit one backpack and bag of groceries into its cargohold, doesn't fit in any bike lane, unless that bike lane is as wide as the one for cars. so it needs space in the car lane and is maybe slightly shorter, but that's not really significant difference.
also do you imagine all bike lanes full of these? yeah, that would solve the congestion problem for sure ;)
This is an extra wide one, the picture description is complaining that it takes the whole one-direction bike lane (that's a third of a road lane).
You post a picture of a bike that's as wide as its handlebar, which is not wider than a regular bike which also has to have enough space to fit its handlebars through and claim it is too wide for a bike lane. Also visible on this picture is a backpack, a grocery bag and a lot of empty space in the cargo-hold and claim it only has space for the backpack and a grocery bag. I feel it is not worth it to argue with you at all since you don't seem to argue in good faith. Disappointing
You post a picture of a bike that’s as wide as its handlebar, which is not wider than a regular bike which also has to have enough space to fit its handlebars through and claim it is too wide for a bike lane.
yeah, there are absolutely not wheels on its side which makes it wider, the whole construction doesn't give it totally different driving characteristics and there is a bike lane to home of every single one of your potential customer, so, you know, these bikes won't use the width of one car lane, because often times it will be the only option.
and a lot of empty space in the cargo-hold
yeah, lot of empty space to take everything you would fit in your average delivery van. everyone can clearly see that.
you don’t seem to argue in good faith
oh i am? are you sure about that? 😂
cargo bike is not efficient alternative to a car, because it is far slower and has much lower capacity than the car, so you will deliver less cargo in longer time. or same cargo in same time using a LOT MORE bikes.
that doesn't mean and i never said they don't have its use-cases, but claiming it will solve the traffic congestion is wild exaggeration.
Are you high? I live in Denmark, a country that has a high amount of bikes, and I see tons of those cargo bikes on the bike lanes each day. Parents bringing their kids to daycare, postal workers bringing letters and parcels, landlords bringing all their tools between apartment complexes around the city. Possibilities are endless.
Are you high?
no. is that a requirement for talking to you?
I see tons of those cargo bikes on the bike lanes each day. Parents bringing their kids to daycare, postal workers bringing letters and parcels, landlords bringing all their tools between apartment complexes around the city.
oh i would like to see your face when all goods that is being transported in vans would suddenly start clogging these bike lanes.
fortunately for everyone it is not going to happen, so you can dream on and fly to tell other pigeons you have won this discussion. 😂
oh i would like to see your face when all goods that is being transported in vans would suddenly start clogging these bike lanes.
Already happened here, vans aren't even allowed to stop here. It works and the city is less congested.
Really? Where is here, so I can find more info about it?
The Randstad in the Netherlands, but Belgium is closely following.
You need to get out if your basement, mate. They are right now transporting lots of stuff on bikes. The fact that you can't be arsed to even look up pictures from other parts of the world and still stubbornly reject other realities than your own says more about you than me.
So, dream on, your car-centric "utopia" doesn't exist.
So, dream on, your car-centric “utopia” doesn’t exist.
oh the car-centric dystopia definitely exists, unlike your cargo-bike one.
you see, there is not necessarily cult on the other side that fights with your cult just because you have another flag. maybe the other side commented on your thoughts because they see a problem in them and that is how you can improve. you will see that, when you get out of your basement one day.
@SteveKLord
I was born in 1953 and my image of people doing labor like this , based on how we perceived people in low income countries, is of a person whose body was worn out by age 30
to a large extent progress is humans not having to do heavy manual labor
sheesh
Cargo bikes are smaller then vans. So you can get closer to the destination, without having to carry the parcel.
Biking is not hard on your body at all. Plenty of people cycle well into their 70s.
even if this were true, it is true only if you have time rest and rejuvenate, and in particular rest after an injury
tht option often not available to people working at lower wage jobs
right ?
tht option often not available to people working at lower wage jobs
Cannot fix the need of stronger unions with cargo bikes for sure
Here in Italy they can have sick days, not an issue usually
yeah, hard physical work basically rejuvenates you... it is the latest secret of celebrities, they all do that instead of botox and spa...
Yeah, instead we buy gym memberships and toil away at the gym. Or die of a heart attack by age 45. Progress!
Sheesh.
The majority of cargo bikes, especially those used for deliveries, are electric and don't require manual labor.
Regardless, I've been doing manual labor my entire 35 year career and still use a cargo bike almost daily. Only thing that has worn out is the seat & tires.
You seem to have missed the point of the article as it in no way was trying to propose more labor for working class people. In many ways it is trying to overcome the oppressive image that you have in your head. To a large extent, these changes are trying to advance human progress by overcoming the crises we find ourselves facing. You were born in 1953? That makes you about 70-71 but your profile says you're 66 years old. That's an odd inconsistency.
1
yeah, I lie about my age
2
re the 1,000x
if you read the comments in the thread you posted, several people point out this is just ludicrouis
so I"m not quite sure what I should have said to you when you post something that is absurd
seriously, what am I to say ?
I don’t want to silence this discussion because the “worn out bodies” comment is actually useful to be debunked and discussed
But pls read the slrpnk.net rules
There is space to disagree but be more constructive 🤝
Sir you are commenting in the wrong thread and the wrong community. Why do that here? I am not a moderator here. I did read all the comments a month ago when the discussion was current and active. You commented here in a combative way and then specifically went to an older post of mine and told me what "should be obvious to " me without any discussion of why or otherwise adding anything constructive. You received several downvotes and were asked to be more constructive. Instead you've doubled down here and repeated the insult.
Solarpunk Urbanism
A community to discuss solarpunk and other new and alternative urbanisms that seek to break away from our currently ecologically destructive urbanisms.
- Henri Lefebvre, The Right to the City — In brief, the right to the city is the right to the production of a city. The labor of a worker is the source of most of the value of a commodity that is expropriated by the owner. The worker, therefore, has a right to benefit from that value denied to them. In the same way, the urban citizen produces and reproduces the city through their own daily actions. However, the the city is expropriated from the urbanite by the rich and the state. The right to the city is therefore the right to appropriate the city by and for those who make and remake it.
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