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submitted 7 months ago by boonhet@lemm.ee to c/games@lemmy.world

Now that Stop Killing Games is actually being taken seriously - maybe we need to take a look at Stop Fucking Around In Our Kernels

I haven't really been personally affected by it before - I don't play any competitive multiplayer games at all. But my wife had her brother over, and he's significantly younger than us. So he wanted to play FortNite and GTA V, knowing I have a gaming PC. FortNite is immediately out of the question, it'll never work on my computer. Okay, so I got GTA V running and it was fun for a while, but it turns out all of those really cool cars only exist in Online. But oh look, now they've added BattlEye and I can no longer get online.

While this seems like a trivial issue (Just buy a third SSD for Windows and dual boot), it's really not. Even if I wanted to install Windows ever again, I do NOT want random 3rd party kernel modules in there. Anyone remember the whole CrowdStrike fiasco? I do NOT want to wake up to my computer not booting up because some idiot decided to push a shitty update to their kernel module that makes the kernel itself shit the bed. And while Microsoft fucks up plenty, at least they're a corporation with a reputation to uphold, and I believe they even have a QA team or 2. CrowdStrike was unheard of outside of the corporate world before the ordeal and tbh nobody has ever heard of it afterwards again.

So I think this would be a good angle to push. That we should be careful about what code runs in our OS kernels, for security and stability reasons. Obviously it'd be impossible to just blanket ban 3rd party kernel modules to any OS. However, maybe here in the EU at least we could get them to consider a rule that any software that includes a component running in the OS kernel, MUST justify how that part is necessary for the software to function in the best possible way for the user of the computer the software is running on. E.g I expect a hardware driver to have a kernel module, and I can see how security software needs to have a kernel module, but I do NOT see how a video game needs to have an anti cheat with a kernel module. How does that benefit me, the customer paying to be able to play said video game?

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[-] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago

I was boycotting it before it was even in the news.

[-] Whitebrow@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago

With you on this, regardless of the method used, no app has any business running or snooping outside of the container that it was set up in. And this doesn’t just apply to desktop operating systems, mobile and entertainment consoles too.

I’d even take it a step further, that nonsense shouldn’t be on my machine in the first place.

Want to run anticheat stuff? Run it on your own crappy servers at your own cost and processing power. Live detect it through packets that are sent to you and are being processed, be it voice or input.

Whatever happens on my machine is none of your business.

[-] inlandempire@jlai.lu 2 points 7 months ago

This issue would be solved / non existent if matchmaking was not the only option for playing online game, which wouldn't be an issue if publishers stopped being so greedy and predatory when it comes to player retention, which wouldn't be an issue if the economic system we live in didn't promote this toxic behaviour.

So yeah, kernel based anticheats are mostly just a symptom of a larger problem, the rotten video games industry

[-] simple@lemm.ee 1 points 7 months ago

This issue would be solved / non existent if matchmaking was not the only option for playing online game

Games that have community hosted servers also needs anticheat. You can't expect an admin to be around 24/7 to ban cheaters.

[-] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip -1 points 7 months ago

This issue would be solved / non existent if matchmaking was not the only option for playing online game

This is incredibly false.

Back in the day? Counterstrike 1.6 was SO good that we played through it with rampant hackers everywhere. Finding the rare server where people weren't using aimbots and wallhacks was a bigger find than a hyper attractive alien asking you to teach it what love is. Same with UT and Quake.

And none of those did "matchmaking".

[-] christhebaker@lemmy.world 1 points 7 months ago

Good post thank you.

Totally agree. Went all-in on Linux earlier this year and it was all working pretty good but there is really no solution when all your buddies are playing fortnite.

The multiple "game streaming" services our there wasn't really cutting it either. I recall reading that Microsoft was going to be more strict with allowing kernel level anticheat but I don't remember exactly where in saw that and I'm too lazy to Google. I hope with all the new PC handhelds coming out (steam deck, etc), that major companies start pushing for this or figuring out a workaround.

[-] ampersandrew@lemmy.world 3 points 7 months ago

In the wake of Crowdstrike, Microsoft was going to allow for additional avenues for hooks into the OS that don't reach as deep into the kernel level, but they never said they were removing the hooks that Crowdstrike or anti-cheat use, as far as I can tell. One solution for PC handhelds is to run whatever modified version of Windows that Microsoft is cooking up, so that you get the console-like interface without compromising on the anti-cheat compatibility. The solution Valve is seemingly hoping for is that, by disclosing kernel-level anti-cheat on the store page, such a solution becomes poison in the marketplace and developers choose a different one.

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[-] cRazi_man@lemm.ee 1 points 7 months ago

I'm the same with committing to Linux completely.

Previously, my Apex Legends account with hundreds of hours and unlocks got banned for no reason, but I made a new account and played on. Then they banned Linux and I've never looked back.

Now I'm looking forward to not being able to play 2XKO as well.

[-] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 1 points 7 months ago

And while Microsoft fucks up plenty, at least they're a corporation with a reputation to uphold, and I believe they even have a QA team or 2.

Lol. Lmao even

[-] atro_city@fedia.io 0 points 7 months ago

Now that Stop Killing Games is actually being taken seriously

It is? They're still at 39%. Let's not call victory before reaching the start of the race. Getting to 100% will just be the beginning.

Also, kernel level anti-cheat seems like an easy thing to fix: don't buy the game. Be a little bit more principled and selective in your purchasing choices.

[-] atrielienz@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago

I don't live in the EU, and am not sure it's a good idea to sign the petition for that reason even though I agree with them 100%.

[-] bread@feddit.nl 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Let me assure you, if you're not actually an EU citizen, signing would be a decidedly bad idea. All that would accomplish is pumped numbers that will be disregarded in the end, so it can only serve to hurt the campaign.

[-] atrielienz@lemmy.world 1 points 7 months ago

I've seen the Government in America ignore more than one petition they claimed was tampered with and I wouldn't want that to be the result here (The EU seems to be more on the up and up than the US government, but still).

[-] TootSweet@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

The ship named "software does shit I don't like on my own hardware" sailed the day proprietary software became a thing.

Mind you, it's scary how many people applaud kernel-level anticheat. "This game was just ruined by hackers until they added kernel-level anticheat. Now it's great again!"

How would a campaign against kernel-level anticheat "succeed" exactly? More awareness? More people boycotting kernel-level anticheat? Laws prohibiting the practice?

Like, obviously I'm never running any software that involves kernel-level anticheat, but I'm a Gentoo neckbeard with an EFF-approved tinfoil hat surgically attached to my scalp.

(Hell, I think it would be great if most of the games out there had cheater and bot servers where it was encouraged to run your cheat tools and/or bots. If they allowed that but just kept it separate from non-tool/non-bot players, that'd be a fantastic way to get kids more interested in STEM.)

(Also, if anyone made and sold a boardgame that made players want to cheat (in a bug-not-feature kind of way), it would get negative reviews and no one would buy it. In a way, kernel-level anticheat can almost be considered a type of "externality". The game studio, rather than going to the trouble to tune their game to make cheating less appealing, they break their users' computers and invade their privacy. And the game studio then rakes in more money as a result.)

But how would we get through to normie 12-year-olds who just want to play Valorant and not have their face constantly rubbed in the dirt by "hackers"?

[-] pivot_root@lemmy.world 1 points 7 months ago

But how would we get through to normie 12-year-olds who just want to play Valorant and not have their face constantly rubbed in the dirt by "hackers"?

I think it would be good for them to be told the truth: you aren't being killed by hackers, you just suck.

[-] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz -3 points 7 months ago

Drag picked up Helldivers recently, which uses a KLA. Drag's had no problems with it. But drag's dragon also downloaded it, and it completely borked its computer. The voltage regulator chip for the CPU failed, and its computer started crashing on completely different games, even after uninstalling Helldivers.

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this post was submitted on 15 Dec 2024
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