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When a fraudster who tried to overthrow democracy and rightfully convicted of 34 felonies, still gets reelected as president, it is evident that there is no justice anymore.
You reminded me of something I read from back around when that bloke got elected, regarding amongst other things, the decline in the rule of law mattering to society...
"The greatness of Rome, brilliant with repeated marks of prosperity, has gradually faded... the ancient glory of military prowess and valour has almost passed away... by the growth of wealth and luxury.
The Roman world is falling: yet we concern ourselves with trifles… We heap up riches that perish and bury our gold in the earth as if we were piling up treasures in a lifetime of prosperity.
Rome was great and could tolerate its own vices as long as they were held in check by some degree of virtue; but when our hands ceased to uphold the laws, when avarice and luxury sapped the nation’s strength, the state itself lost control and went its way.
The finest men were shut out from office by the lowest dregs of society, who, having won the favour of the mob by base means, ventured to grasp at the highest offices.
The greater her glory, the more incredible it seems that she has been brought so low.
Empires are mortal. Rome has perished. Though she was built upon such firm foundations, Rome has sunk by her own weight."
- Ammianus Marcellinus, Eusebius Sophronius Hieronymus, Tacitus, Aurelius Ambrosius, Aurelius Augustinus Hipponensis. 56 - 430 AD.
Can you indicate which author is associated with which portion of your quoted text? I'm looking to verify the provenance of these statements. Thank you.
Alas no, I saw this a while back and saved it. I believe they're mostly a mix of direct quotes (or as much as one can be given they weren't speaking English), and a lot of summations from their published works. So rather than reading a whole book, you get a few sentences carrying their main points.
At least that's what I recall :-)
My suggestion would be to look in to the authors, find their relevant works and give them a read, that'll give you the same thoughts and opinions but with way more detail :-D
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It's been evident long before Trump had anything to do with politics
Agreed.
The wealthy and powerful sadly have always and will always have a preferential justice system.
There is no justice system, it is a legal system. Justice does not exist within it.
Came here to say exactly this
/ End Thread
On Monday, 26-year-old Daniel Penny was acquitted after killing Jordan Neely, a desperate Black homeless man on the subway...
Tale as old as time.
“…on the grounds that he was trying to protect others.”
I think that’s a pretty fucking important line right there.
I think the point is, the system pushed one man to his breaking point simply for being poor, black, and mentally ill; resulting in his eventual strangulation on a subway. Not saying the the situation didn't require intervention but acting as if the whole thing was "unavoidable" or even "justified" gladiator giving all the context is Pretty Fucking Important
It wasn't unavoidable but also it was his aggressive behaviour towards others that directly lead to him being subdued. I'm not sure the situation would've been different with a white guy acting aggressive towards fellow passengers, especially a mother and her child.
The point is neither situation should ever happen in a system that puts humanity over profits. A mentally ill, homeless, and starving person should exist in our society because we have the means to house, feed, and provide Healthcare for everyone. (we just don't have the morality)
Also, the strangle hold was applied for 5 min. I'm no expert but when someone goes limp from blood flow being blocked, you usually don't need to continue choking them for an additional 4 min.
It shouldn't happen but such a situation where someone becomes hostile can occur even when theoretically everyone's every need is taken care of. It's unfortunate that it did though.
Also, the strangle hold was applied for 5 min. I’m no expert but when someone goes limp from blood flow being blocked, you usually don’t need to continue choking them for an additional 4 min.
That's what the court case was over. Nobody is really disagreeing about the homeless man having been aggressive and a threat and needing to be subdued, it was just about whether the person who subdued him was guilty of "criminally negligent homicide".
Imagine if the defense pulls that line in court. My client gun down this man to save lives your honor!
The whole thing seems to have been about if the guy went too far in subduing the homeless dude who was by all accounts acting crazy and aggressive towards other passengers, including a woman with a child with her.
It's so crazy reading different characterizations of the situation. Some are saying how the guy heroically saved other passengers by strangling an aggressive homeless dude for six minutes, even after other passengers had apparently left, others are saying how a vicious white attacker decided to murder a desperate BLACK victim of the system without any reason.
Wild shit.
Well, a judge decided to drop the charges. I don’t know all of the details of the case but I’ll hunt for them later today.
I do know that if passengers felt threatened and this dude stepped up and helped, it’s unfortunate that it ended badly, but good for him doing something.
I’m not the type to fight in a crazy situation unless I’m backed into a corner and I would be thankful to any person with the balls to step in.
I don’t know why we have to go around comparing unrelated situations or looking for anything to justify our feelings.
It’s like when George Floyd was killed and a bunch of assholes went digging for why that was ok. “He used drugs, he had a counterfeit 20, blah blah blah. What about so and so who got shot, HE WAS WHITE U NO!!!”
This dude wasn’t a police officer and if he was protecting passengers we should be holding him up as a hero too. We can feel sorry for the dude who died, but we don’t need to vilify anyone except maybe the system that failed to help a man in a mental health crisis. That is, if helping fellow passengers was his motivation and that appears to be the case.
Even the prosecution seemed to say that the initial reaction was justified because the other guy was aggressive and hostile in a crowded train, but that the measures taken to subdue him went too far
From the New Yorker article linked in the posted article:
“His initial intent was even laudable, to protect fellow subway riders from a man he perceived to be a threat.” But the law does not permit “laudable behavior” when it is also “unnecessarily reckless,” Yoran went on. Her opening statement—in which she described how Penny held Neely in a choke hold for almost six minutes, even after the train doors had opened and the other straphangers had fled to safety—concluded, “The defendant was not justified in these deadly actions. He used far too much force for far too long. He went way too far.” Later, the jury—twelve jurors and four alternates, all hailing from Manhattan—would need to decide for themselves whether the Assistant District Attorney was correct.
Yeah, I guess. I don’t think we should be parading this guy around as a villain. Even if he held the dude for too long, it’s a scary situation that he was in and who knows what will happen if you let someone go who has been aggressive. He isn’t a police officer, he didn’t have handcuffs and a taser, he was just a dude on a train.
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I've seen people comparing the DOJ response to Luigi Mangioni and Kyle Shittenhouse. The fact that Rittenhouse is free should tell you everything you need to know.
Well the difference is that while both actively premeditated their murders whoever committed the crimes Mangioni has been accused of is far more of a menace because they had a specific target in mind and even worse it was someone rich instead of just anyone protesting the police tendency to murder.
Rittenhouse attacked 3 people, that's 3x the danger. But I guess I forgot to count up their net worths.
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A stark reminder of who the justice system works for. They are there to protect the rich elites.
Yup. The irony wasn't lost on us either.
I don't think these are comparable.
I think that's the point of the article.
You both make good points so I up voted.
Matt Stone killed a homeless man?
Our society ties worth to wealth.
To a capitalist, If you're homeless, you have less moral value than someone who exploited millions of people's need for healthcare for his own gain.
And there are a lot of capitalists.
but killing rich people is illegal!
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this post was submitted on 11 Dec 2024
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