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submitted 1 week ago by Stern@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world
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[-] rekabis@programming.dev 38 points 1 week ago

In the context of Capitalism, sure, Japan is in trouble.

But then again, any system that demands infinite growth within a finite system has a biological parallel… in cancer. Yes, capitalism is economic cancer.

Japan has a bright future in front of it, if it can successfully pioneer an effective degrowth system that prioritizes the lives of people over Paraiste-Class profits.

[-] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 week ago

Outside of capitalism it is hard to function below replacement level because the young people have to take care of the elderly

[-] MisterScruffy@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 week ago

Young people would have time to take care of the elderly if they weren't forced to work 60+ hour weeks consistently

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[-] anticurrent@sh.itjust.works 26 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

No one has time for family in Japan

When I watch yt videos about people leaving the workplace at 10pm, I wonder how suicide rate isn't way higher

[-] MonkeMischief@lemmy.today 17 points 1 week ago

This. I think there's so much to love about Japan, especially the cultural leaning towards doing everything with respect, dignity, and skill.

But the megacorpos definitely won in exploiting that, and the general social pressure revolving around workplace culture there is genuinely terrifying to me.

As a US person, our corporate-brainwash culture is awful too, but I'm glad we're seeing bigger working class pushes to tell our employers "Go kick rocks. My family is more important."

[-] A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

America has a individualist culture. Thats why we have unions and stuff (for now, anyway..) and don't have to blow our bosses ego until 11pm every night.

Japan has a very..conformity driven culture. You conform to expectations around you, or you get ostracized heavily and treated like an outsider.

Which is a big driver for this kind of "I ahve to work till 5, then drink with my boss/coworkers until midnight, because if I dont I'll lose my job and be ostracized" stuff.

[-] Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

There is no dignity or respect to the worker by the sound of it

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[-] JcbAzPx@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago

There's a reason so much anime these days is a salaryman dying on the job and reincarnating into a fantasy world.

[-] JordanZ@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago

I think I like the premise a bit more than the show. Zom 100 is about a kid who starts a soul crushing office job only to become the happiest guy alive after the zombie apocalypse starts and he realizes he doesn’t need to go to work anymore.

[-] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 20 points 1 week ago

You can tell capitalism is super efficient and sustainable by how it totally collapses without fresh babies to sacrifice.

[-] alkbch@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 week ago

Any system would collapse without newer generations.

[-] JamesTBagg@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago

Except only one of those systems depends on the exploitation of the working class, ya know, your breeding live stock. Only one of those system destroys a work life balance. Only one leaves the population with little free time and shrinking resources with which to have and raise a kid. Japan is past, and the US is passing, the tipping point. Society may deem it necessary but the potential parents recognize it as untenable.
What happens when the orphan crushing machine has no orphans?

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[-] DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago

Which is why, in the U.S., the rich are turning back abortion rights and access to birth control, and gutting our public education. They could, instead, work to build a country where people felt safe, and supported--healthcare, jobs with decent wages, education, etc.--but the filthy rich are psychopaths who care only about themselves, and will do nothing that costs them money, power, and control. Instead, they'll GLADLY watch the people (people they depend, incidentally, for what good is power and control, if there's no one to wield it over?) suffer at great levels in attempts to achieve their goals.

It takes a lot of poor people to make one filthy rich person.

[-] AA5B@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago

Babies are expensive and time consuming to develop into useful serfs. The US is not yet hitting most of the consequences from low birth rates because it’s balanced out by immigration. As long as they keep encouraging and welcoming immigration ….

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[-] golli@lemm.ee 4 points 1 week ago

Lets see how China handles it down the road before we mark this one a problem of one specific system, rather than just humans seemingly sucking in sustainable long term planning on large scales in general.

[-] Miphera@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago

China is also capitalist though, and they're also starting to suffer from the same issue.

[-] DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago

No, China is Communist, it says so right in their name.

/sarcasm

[-] Woht24@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago

I don't think any social/political structure would survive without a birth rate

[-] A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago

I mean, any system collapses if you don't have the people to actively participate in it.

I'm not saying that as a defense of capitalism, more so as pointing out how dumb your comment is.

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[-] hellerphant@lemmy.cafe 10 points 1 week ago

I live and work in Japan, and it definitely is not a very condusive environment for younger Japanese people to have children. My wife and I are both foreigners, and we are in out late 30's and just had our first. The country has some really great benefits and support services for having children, but we definitely would not be able to do this if we worked for Japanese companies, and with the Japanese work mentality.

While it IS getting better, work being the central pillar of life and the expectations from the older generations are still very much a thing. The long hours of paper pushing, the culture of promotion based on age and time served rather than innovation and hard work takes a toll on people. If you are not living in the office in your 20s to show your dedication, you are looked down upon, at least accoridng to my Japanese friends.

Immigration could help fix some of this. Japan is a desireable, largely affordable country, that is safe when it comes to raising children. Living here as a foreigner though has specific challenges, and your job prospects are pretty poor unless you are lucky, and access to housing and just general living can be challenging, even if you can speak Japanese.

I just got a new job in Kyoto, and I currently live in Tokyo. I would say around 40% of the houses we applied to look at would not even let us see the properties because we are foreigners. That's 100% legal and totally ok to say here, and I take that in stride. In Australia (where I am from), they would either just tell you to piss off, or show you the property knowing you don't have a chance, so at least they are upfront about it here I guess. Getting a credit card is a massive ordeal, which you kinda need here because debit cards are increasingly hard to find, and they don't even work for all bills and systems, and getting a bank account ... it all just snowballs.

Also anything outside of the major cities is kinda dead. I love it, but living and thriving there in places that have more space that would probably promote having big families, is nearly impossible, or at least impossibly boring. This is not unique to Japan, Australia is largely the same outside of the main cities.

Not sure what the fix is. But annecdotally I see these articles all the time, and yet there are kids and younger families always around, so not sure if it is as serious as they are saying, or more media hype?

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[-] mechoman444@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago

As an American (or at least a non Japanese native) if my boss came up to me yelling and swearing in my face I would punch him out cold.

Actually if more Japanese did this I think things would improve at the office.

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[-] ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 week ago

The biggest issue that no one ever wants to talk about is ....

... it's isn't about the QUANTITY of life

.... it's about the QUALITY of life.

If people are able to have a comfortable, stable and prosperous life, with plenty of their own free time to enjoy without worrying about losing everything then they'll make time and an effort to have a family and children.

If all our wealthy overlords ever want to do is squeeze every penny out of us all the time, then people will be less likely to want to have children.

[-] bassomitron@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago

It also strongly correlates to women's rights and access to education. The more educated women are, the less likely they are to have a lot of kids.

https://blogs.worldbank.org/en/health/female-education-and-childbearing-closer-look-data

It's why you see a renewed attack on women in some developed countries, especially in the US.

[-] Dagwood222@lemm.ee 3 points 1 week ago

Here's what happened in America.

In the 1960s the "Women's Lib" movement started. They got a lot of press coverage because it was a good stroy, but didn't actually change things a lot.

In 1973 the Oil Embargo hit and suddenly one job wasn't enough for the family to survive. Lots of wives had to go out and look for work to keep paying the bills.

The Right has been lying that women getting jobs is what destroyed the one income family.

[-] DarkCloud@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

Tying the mortgage repayment rate to the median salary of a single individual would go some way towards fixing things then, but that would mean putting price caps on houses which would devalue the currency and also need anti-cartel laws (eg. Laws mandating a maximum amount of homes one can own, as cartels might see artificially low prices as an opportunity to buy up more houses).

Artificially constraining parts of banking and all of residential real estate is likely to have other unforeseen effects on the economy, but may still be worth it.

Another alternative is starting a state bank in which citizens can be part of a rent-to-own mortgage, with minimum but achievable life time repayments. If they don't meet those minimum payments, the house is sold and the profit from the sale is portioned out between the state bank and the mortgage payer in proportion to how much % they paid off.

That's a win win, as theyre probably getting a big cash payment when struggling, and the state bank then gets to relist the home.

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[-] Xanza@lemm.ee 7 points 1 week ago

"It's so expensive to have children in Japan that birthrate is further declining."

I swear to God these people couldn't connect the dots with a GPS.

[-] Clinicallydepressedpoochie@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Surely if they just instill good Christian moral values like forced birth, racism, and tribal isolationism all their problems will be solved.

[-] robbinhood@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

I mean, Japan is one of the more isolationist countries on earth. And racism is a massive issue. Christianity isn't a major factor, but traditional views on the roles of women and the set up of the household are a major challenge.

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[-] Fedizen@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago

Give them some days off.

[-] 0101100101@programming.dev 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

This problem is not isolated to Japan. Countries all across the world are facing the same issue and have been for a number of years.

Create a shitty, miserable, society with no rights or support, and people do not want to bring children into it.... who'd guess?

The flannel has been wrung dry to the detriment of the working class; there is no where to go, no more water to squeeze from them. This is global society / capitalism falling apart.

[-] CheeseNoodle@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago

Exactly its not some mysterious problem no matter how much the government and media try to frame it as one, people of the age to have kids have no time for kids and no money for kids so no wonder they have no desire for kids.

[-] T156@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago

Even if they did want children, without the support systems, it may not be feasible for them to have kids. Having them might mean choosing to starve or go without a house.

Even if you're in a country with a public health care system, a sick/young child means having to take time off work to care for them.

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[-] Rookwood@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 week ago

I believe Japan has less inequality than the US. Not sure on that, but I think it's true. I think in this case we see work culture playing a role. The only country in the world with a worse work culture than the US is Japan. No one has time to even think about having kids when you are a company man there. It's similar in the US.

[-] mechoman444@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago

It really is. In the US I mean. I work 6 days a week 9 am till whenever the fuck I'm done. Sometimes at 1pm and some nights I'm not home by 7pm.

Luckily I've negotiated less work orders on Saturday later in the morning so I have some kind of decline of work towards the end of the week. It took six years of constant work to get even that. Otherwise it's 7 work orders a day and I drive around 150 miles a day. (I work in household appliance repair. So I travel from home to home.)

It's a thankless job I get micromanaged in. The only advantage I have is that appliance repair techs are always in high demand because there's so few of us and I'm good at my job so my boss can't really fire me.

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[-] socsa@piefed.social 3 points 1 week ago

Japan will literally collapse into fire before they allow immigration

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[-] Dagnet@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago

Huge amount of japanese descent people in Brazil (including me), but I have the feeling the japanese would rather have their country implode than give us nationality

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[-] ItsJannnneee@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 1 week ago

I love Japan, but I will say it has its issues that often get overlooked. Workplace culture is horrific in Japan and it contributes to their high suicide rates. There's even a word in Japanese that specifically refers to a person dying from being overworked. I know friends who immigrated to Japan, only to regret it because they saw for themselves just how harsh the workplace culture was. Japanese people have no time for their family. Something must change or this problem is going to get worse but given it's a highly conservative culture I'm not sure it's going to see changes anytime soon.

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this post was submitted on 01 Mar 2025
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