That's an interesting choice of words. Feels pretty genocidy in my humble opinion
Mitigation, not necessarily destruction.
Side note: what is the civilized way to deal with genociders and might is right folks? Are they equalky valid and how do we balance their right to their opinions and raising the next generation of hate with avoiding further harm?
To my knowledge Russia isn't attempting to commit genocide. They want to have Ukraine under their thumb, not eradicated.
That is in no way a defence of Russia's actions. I just don't think we need to levy, what I believe to be a falsehood (I'm willing to accept I may be wrong here if anyone has evidence) at Russia to denounce them.
My comment about genocide was a jab at your Hitler-esque choice of words and comparing your view of Russian people to Hitler's view of Jewish people.
Eradication of Ukraine's language & identity, kidnapping children to raise them as Russian etc are all recognised types of genocide that they are actively doing on a daily basis. They don't so much want all Ukrainians to die as they want the very idea of Ukraine being anything other than yet another Russian oblast to cease to exist.
Now that you mention it, I do remember hearing about the kidnapping and conversion way back at the start of the invasion.
Thanks for the education, I don't think the things you brought up are reported widely enough
World War III
Look at history before WWII. More wars, imperialism, competition in general. The end of WWII brought a new superpower—the USA—NATO, the United Nations and a shift to more diplomacy and trade.
Yes, yes there was still imperialistic shit going on, even to this day. But, it hasn’t been nearly as bad as pre-WWII.
Russia, and the USA, are shifting back to the old footing of using hard power to for economic gain and influence. China might be heading that way, too.
Hopefully, it gets rolled back. I think there is some hope for the USA for peaceful regime change. Russia, however, still isn’t feeling the pain of regressive policies enough to make a change. I think, absent all out global war, things will have to get pretty bad there before their attitudes change.
Napoleon? Hitler?
I think you're ignoring the stage of the world, right now: The Great Filter's where we're at, now.
Imagine a giant "cell", a world with too-many humans to be able to support them all, because humans got adult technology, multiplying humankind's effect 10,000-fold, but .. humans are still part-toddler & part-pubescent tween..
Except now, the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Current ( AMOC ) is shutting-down, Greenland's melting into the North Atlantic ( which will wreck the North Atlantic's ports, later this century ), the actual CO2 & methane levels in this world's atmosphere nail the planet's equilibrium-temperature to between +8C & +9C, most of { California, Texas, Sahara, Saudi-Arabia, India, Outback of Australia } become uninhabitABLE by about +4C, & the political-tantrum, the ideological-tantrum the "religious"-tantrum, etc, all are stacking-up on top of the panic-migrations that are going to be forced shortly..
& then ask the Russia question..
What's actually happening, is that humankind is going-through
etc..
Pick a view, in other words..
I don't believe that country-nationalism CAN survive The Great Filter: I believe that it has to be Blue Marble Earth "nation" or it's going to be factional-supremacists exterminating humankind for their own "authority" and "supremacy" and "importance" until humankind's completely nonviable, & functionally finished..
The Kahneman1-mind, imprint->reaction mind, lower-forebrain, ideology/prejudice/"religion" which "doesn't need to consider: it INHERENTLY just knows" ..
is fighting to force-extinguish Kahneman2-mind, considered-reasoning mind, upper-forebrain, studying-and-accepting-evidence mode, because Universe is sooo much more complexer than we default to ignorantly assume..
( Daniel Kahneman's "Thinking Fast and Slow" is part of the root of this understanding: it's literally a species-wide fighting-off of growing-up, to "return to the animals-&-tribes-times", that the "biblical" people want to enforce, but it's ALL ideologies wanting to enforce, the non-thinking REACTING nature of it )
Now ask:
IS Russia, in the crunch-time of this world, going to suddenly replace ideology with critical-thinking-education & considered-reasoning??
No?
THEN Russia is warring for the obliteration of considered-reasoning.
Do the same question for EVERY nation in this world, & add-up the results.
You will find that the white-blue-white Russians are committed to considered-reasoning, but the white-blue-red Russians are not..
Same with all countries: there are some who want their animal-reaction obliterating all competitors from the face of this Universe, there are others who understand that the Copernican revolution ( no, neither Sun nor G-D revolves around "the world of Man". ) never went far-enough, & that we have to accept that in the Great Scheme of Things(tm), we are .. sentient dust!
& if we accept that we are much more likely to be developmentally-backward citizens of this Universe, objectively, & that is too-much of an ego-hit for the animal-reaction ideologues..
Ask about the Confederates!
Ask about the CCP!
Ask about the Rupert Murdoch populist-dictatorship people! ( the elegant & brilliant remapping of Leninism from left to right, from proletariat-dictatorship to populist-dictatorship. Both Leninism & Murdochism are evil, in my eyes, but the efficiency with-which they eradicate uprightness from civilizations: they're like efficient cancer!
I want considered-reasoning, & Issue-Diagrams, & responsibility-archy, & accountability, they want authority-without-accountability-or-responsibility, so they're on the opposite side, but .. you simply have to admire efficiency when it's that much greater than one's own side's work, even while working to counter it..
maybe people who aren't systems-creatures won't understand that, but systems-people .. effectiveness can itself be beautiful )
So, what I see is that focusing in Russia is actually like moving tables on the sinking of the Titanic: solving the wrong problem.
The Global Fascist Alliance, with Putin, Trump+Musk, Millei, Farage, Le Pen, Orban, etc.. they've got real strength in this world, & they're going to GUT civil-rights from our planet, permanently, if they can.
The left is .. making-believing that it isn't a survival-situation, that "the next election we can just take it back" .. but anybody who sees just how stunningly fast the shredding-of-the-US-civil-society is progressing..
https://www.project2025.observer/
See on there that they're assuming there's going to be an election to replace Trump?
Idiocy: there isn't.
That's the kind of making-believing I'm talking about: comforting making-believing while being herded into the abbatoir.
Russia & the US are solid allies, & NATO is their enemy, now.
Period.
This was predicted by some, for the last few years.
The quicker that the rest-of-NATO realizes this, the greater the percentage of their people will survive.
Within 3y, the US will be waging total war on Canada, because only through possessing both Canada & Greenland can the US corner Europe between Russia & the entirely-continental US of A.
Annihilating the hated-by-both-Putin-and-Trump woke EU means that they then get to be the only "kings" left in the West.
Trump's annexing of Greenland isn't for ice-rights, or mineral-rights, it is for military force-projection against Europe.
The EU's trojanned, with Orban, so they're hamstrung.
England gutted itself with Brexit.
The multi-dimensional-assault is elegant..
for the soft-force, butcher Europe through politics, but .. the physical-butchering of the EU is obliged, apparently, in Putin & Trump's hearts..
Arm to the teeth, & fight to the death.
That is the only real way left.
1st Ukraine, then .. Canada & Europe, ie TrueNATO.
IF we remain standing when the US's war-against-itself implodes it, THEN we'll be standing to be having the CCP throwing all their Asian Empire ( the US should be able to be rampaging our Western world until .. sometime in 2031 or so? & with the West all "occupied" by that, China can simply smash all "independence" from Asia, without our being able to do ANYthing about it. ) against us, when the US fails..
So, it'll simply be like those idiotic "opponents" in computer-games, who wait at the side, until you've dealt-with the current one, then the next one piles-on..
IF CCP waits until the Russia+US alliance collapses, THEN .. it gets to wallop an already-exhausted TrueNATO, right?
Even better, it gets to finance Russia's rampaging of Europe, while pretending it isn't "involved", the whole time that Russia+US are warring against TrueNATO, & then once that bit's done, it can overtly own Russia, its now-economic-vassal-state..
Sorry this isn't lining-up with "what to do about Russia" as it was intended.
but surviving this century requires we get guts, drive, & upright instinct, pronto.
We need to become more like Ukraine has been, but not the naive-fool that Zelenskiy is being, in assuming that the US is somehow his, & not Putin's, ally, now.
( I pray he gets his head out of the sand, immediately )
This is a literal deathmatch, a war-of-attrition between enemy-intents who .. most of them .. simply don't care if nobody survives on this world, so long as nobody of the others survives.
Wrong-framing means a greater percentage of humankind are extinguished, this-century, is all.
It saves zero lives, it offers less effective "comfort" than alcohol: Hopium COST the Dems in the US their country.
We need to not let it drug us, too.
_ /\ _
Russia under the tsars?
But how were the Tsars eased from influence and control, what did that process look like?
They and everyone related to them that could be found were hunted down and killed, followed by a civil war and 69 years of iron fisted rule by a new elite, posing as communists, after which those elites who saw the imminent collapse pivoted to being oligarchs.
Nature abhors a vacuum.
It seems like they weren't eased tho. How do we ease it? Like how can
Please ignore deleted aha was not a formed thought yet
If Russia is going to do Russian things, then Russian things will happen.
Historically Russia empire builds until they collapse due to poor policies, their territories separate, Russia economically rebounds, Russia then empire builds.
The best we can hope for is hold a line that they won't cross and we can have diplomacy and cultural exchange that leads to a more progressive government that doesn't feel "othered" by the world, as has been the case, and then Russia can be welcomed into the international community as a friend.
No peoples that are alienated and maligned will be peaceful, Russia and Best Korea are examples of this. We can be their friends and let our friendship be get peace.
There is no such thing as a Stupid Question!
Don't be embarrassed of your curiosity; everyone has questions that they may feel uncomfortable asking certain people, so this place gives you a nice area not to be judged about asking it. Everyone here is willing to help.
Reminder that the rules for lemmy.ca still apply!
Thanks for reading all of this, even if you didn't read all of this, and your eye started somewhere else, have a watermelon slice 🍉.
