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submitted 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) by tal@lemmy.today to c/privacy@lemmy.world

For those not familiar, there are numerous messages containing images being repeatedly spammed to many Threadiverse users talking about a Polish girl named "Nicole". This has been ongoing for some time now.

Lemmy permits external inline image references to be embedded in messages. This means that if a unique image URL or set of image URLs are sent to each user, it's possible to log the IP addresses that fetch these images; by analyzing the log, one can determine the IP address that a user has.

In some earlier discussion, someone had claimed that local lemmy instances cache these on their local pict-rs instance and rewrite messages to reference the local image.

It does appear that there is a closed issue on the lemmy issue tracker referencing such a deanonymization attack:

https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/1036

I had not looked into these earlier, but it looks like such rewriting and caching intending to avoid this attack is not occurring, at least on my home instance. I hadn't looked until the most-recent message, but the image embedded here is indeed remote:

https://lemmy.doesnotexist.club/pictrs/image/323899d9-79dd-4670-8cf9-f6d008c37e79.png

I haven't stored and looked through a list of these, but as I recall, the user sending them is bouncing around different instances. They certainly are not using the same hostname for their lemmy instance as the pict-rs instance; this message was sent from nicole92 on lemmy.latinlok.com, though the image is hosted on lemmy.doesnotexist.club. I don't know whether they are moving around where the pict-rs instance is located from message to message. If not, it might be possible to block the pict-rs instance in your browser. That will only be a temporary fix, since I see no reason that they couldn't also be moving the hostname on the pict-rs instance.

Another mitigation would be to route one's client software or browser through a VPN.

I don't know if there are admins working on addressing the issue; I'd assume so, but I wanted to at least mention that there might be privacy implications to other users.

In any event, regardless of whether the "Nicole" spammer is aiming to deanonymize users, as things stand, it does appear that someone could do so.

My own take is that the best fix here on the lemmy-and-other-Threadiverse-software-side would be to disable inline images in messages. Someone who wants to reference an image can always link to an external image in a messages, and permit a user to click through. But if remote inline image references can be used, there's no great way to prevent a user's IP address from being exposed.

If anyone has other suggestions to mitigate this (maybe a Greasemonkey snippet to require a click to load inline images as a patch for the lemmy Web UI?), I'm all ears.

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[-] ragebutt@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 months ago

Way back in the days of somethingawful Lowtax, the admin and owner who was a spiteful shithead, would do a similar trick for sites that criticized him

He would register an account, show up, and chat everyone up. Act in on the joke. Eventually he would post a blank 1x1px image hosted on the somethingawful server in one of his comments. Then, he would view the logs that accessed the image. If any somethingawful members had an IP that matched the log they would be banned

For the young folks who didn’t exist in that era: this was pre Facebook and social media. SA was one of the biggest forums and most importantly it was also $10 to join, plus add ons like search, avatar, etc cost etc. would be like reddit costing money to join and then banning you because you posted here about how much reddit was shit compared to the old days

[-] RaoulDook@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

Might be good to think about fediverse security similar to email security, as they are both federated information sharing systems. Email has spam blocking, allowing for reputation checks and other complex stuff. I wonder if Lemmy instances could collaborate on a SpamHaus type of bad host / bad user list to use and share.

[-] DFX4509B_2@lemmy.org 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I've been blocking and reporting these nicole accounts as spam bots lately. I hope this doesn't become as bad as the spam bots in the YT comments.

[-] Cypher@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

We used to do this on the EVE online forums until CCP caught on and banned inline images.

[-] UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 months ago

"Man, everyone is on planet earth. How boring"

[-] Cypher@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

We were using the IPs and post times to identify accounts, then checking IPs that connected to our VOIP servers so we could identify spies and either remove them or feed them false intel.

Basic counter-intel work and all for a video game heh.

[-] rumschlumpel@feddit.org 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)
[-] Justas@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 months ago

Yes, especially because many Lemmy users have some radical views.

For real, totally tubular 🤙

[-] forrgott@lemm.ee 0 points 2 months ago

Yup. Especially with digital watermarking by modifying a pixel here or there - something you'd naturally need a computer to detect.

[-] milicent_bystandr@lemm.ee 1 points 2 months ago

You don't need digital watermarking got for this. Just host the image at different URLs. evil.lemmy.org/nicole-mbystander.png and evil.lemmy.org/nicole-forrgott.png. (Really you'd use a random string and save in a database.) Then see what IP requests the -mbystander version and which the -forrgottt version, and you have our IP addresses.

[-] LWD@lemm.ee 0 points 2 months ago

I miss those old images that would show you your IP address and ISP name, which were generated dynamically based on the request. They were designed just to be a bit frightening. But, because they were rendered on the server side, there was definitely nothing stopping them from recording your IP address too.

https://imgur.com/aYxadwg

[-] kabi@lemm.ee 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)
[-] missandry351@lemmings.world 0 points 2 months ago

Good luck doing that in Portugal the ips are all dynamic here

[-] EngineerGaming@feddit.nl 0 points 2 months ago

Good luck, my IP consistently points to an entirely another city.

[-] HereIAm@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago

Sure, but if you also logged into Facebook from that IP it's a pretty simple match up.

[-] EngineerGaming@feddit.nl 1 points 2 months ago

Yeah, I get it (barring the fact that literal Facebook is not even accessible from my IP lol). But whether this is useful, depends on who the attacker is. If we're talking about, say, a data broker - yeah. But would Jake from accounting have such "IP-account" logs?

[-] ArchmageAzor@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago

My money says it's Russia trying to find potential political adversaries (people who don't agree with them)

[-] SkyezOpen@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

Doed anyone know if Nicole has introduced herself to lemmygrad?

[-] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 0 points 2 months ago

IP addresses are fairly worthless

[-] tal@lemmy.today 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I mean, it (hopefully) shouldn't let someone compromise a system remotely, but:

  • For those of you who have used IRC networks that didn't mask IP addresses, people getting in flamewars proceeding to then DDoSing each other is a fundamental issue. If someone wants to do something at low latency, like play real-time video games, this is a particularly obnoxious way to disrupt them.

  • IP addresses can often be correlated across databases, even by random members of the public. I remember someone running another bot that would map IP addresses to BitTorrent downloads, for example.

End of the day, the Lemmy security model is "someone can see the username you choose to expose, but not IP address". If the IP address is intended to be exposed, then might as well just stick it right next to the username. If it isn't, then one shouldn't let users be able to trivially-obtain it by pulling a direct-message stunt.

[-] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip -1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

You as a user can not just DDoS someone. Modern connections a way faster and modern network hardware with drop packets that are taking up to much bandwidth. You are also behind a firewall and probaby a NAT which will drop random incoming packets.

The modern internet is full of bots scanning. If that doesn't destroy your connection chances are some random internet person can't either.

this post was submitted on 18 Mar 2025
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