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It is deeply bad that a moderator can remove any post or reply. (sh.itjust.works)

submitted 2 months ago by rainrain@sh.itjust.works to c/showerthoughts@lemmy.world

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Yes, I know, trolls etc. But such action turns any conversation into a bad joke. And anybody who trusts a moderator is a fool.

Find a better way.

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[-] originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com 41 points 2 months ago

the thing youre missing about the fediverse.. if a community does not approve of a mod they can literally pick up and move their community to a new community or even a different instance altogether.

this has happened at least a few times.

moderation is a necessary management tool, and yes, it is certainly abused.. but the fediverse gives us the ability to tell mods to go fuck themselves.

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[-] cattywampas@lemm.ee 20 points 2 months ago

What's the better way?

[+] rainrain@sh.itjust.works -20 points 2 months ago

The better way is one where control resides solely with the user.

[-] superkret@feddit.org 15 points 2 months ago

The instance admin is legally responsible for everything posted on their instance.
Giving all the control to the users would literally carry the risk of going to prison.

[-] hedgehog@ttrpg.network 9 points 2 months ago

As a user, you can:

Review instance and community rules prior to participating
Review the moderator logs to confirm that moderation activities have been in line with the rules
If you notice a discrepancy, e.g., over-moderation, you can hold the mods accountable and draw attention to it or simply choose not to engage in that instance or community
Host your own instance
Create communities in an existing instance or your own instance

If you host your own instance and communities within that instance, then at that point, you have full control, right? Other instances can de-federate from yours.

[+] rainrain@sh.itjust.works -9 points 2 months ago

I am aware of that. But still, giving somebody the power to arbitrarily censor and modify our conversation is a fundamentally bad thing.

[-] hedgehog@ttrpg.network 6 points 2 months ago

Then why are you doing that, and why aren’t you at least hosting your own instance?

[-] rainrain@sh.itjust.works -4 points 2 months ago

It's a discussion of principle.

This is a foreign concept?

[-] hedgehog@ttrpg.network 3 points 2 months ago

It’s a discussion of principle.

This is a foreign concept?

It appears to be a foreign concept for you.

I don’t believe that it’s a fundamentally bad thing to converse in moderated spaces; you do. You say "giving somebody the power to arbitrarily censor and modify our conversation is a fundamentally bad thing" like it’s a fact, indicating you believe this, but you’ve been given the tools to avoid giving others the power to moderate your conversation and you have chosen not to use them. This means that you are saying “I have chosen to do a thing that I believe is fundamentally bad.” Why would anyone trust such a person?

For that matter, is this even a discussion? People clearly don’t agree with you and you haven’t explained your reasoning. If a moderator’s actions are logged and visible to users, and users have the choice of engaging under the purview of a moderator or moving elsewhere, what's the problem?

It is deeply bad that...

Why?

Yes, I know, trolls, etc..

In other words, "let me ignore valid arguments for why moderation is needed."

But such action turns any conversation into a bad joke.

It doesn't.

And anybody who trusts a moderator is a fool.

In places where moderator's actions are unlogged and they're not accountable to the community, sure - and that's true on mainstream social media. Here, moderators are performing a service for the benefit of the community.

Have you never heard the phrase "Trust, but verify?"

Find a better way.

This is the better way.

[-] hypnicjerk@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

go outside and have conversations in person if you're genuinely this concerned about it. you fundamentally have very little control over your device or network connection without deep technical knowledge, so maybe start there?

[-] db2@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago

That's embarrassingly ignorant.

[-] smiletolerantly@awful.systems 18 points 2 months ago

"We don't need moderators!" shouts the Troll*, in the wrong community.

* either a troll or just an idiot, doesn't matter imo

[+] rainrain@sh.itjust.works -8 points 2 months ago

If you are saying nothing wrong then you have nothing to fear from moderation, right?

[-] smiletolerantly@awful.systems 10 points 2 months ago

I mean... "To fear"? No. But There are plenty legitimate to remove comments and posts that have nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing, to do with mod overreach or censorship.

removing derailing threads from heated discussions
removing the annoying "just asking questions" people from LGBTQ+ safe spaces
removing posts accidentally posted into the wrong community
removing troll posts
banning repeat troublemakers not willing to follow the rules
removing aggressive, sexist, racist,... posts

On the other hand, anti-moderation people only ever seem to come up with "but I want to be able to post whatever I want!"

"Free speech" in this context means: you can go create your own instance or community, with blackjack and hookers! And mods can use the tools at their disposal to enable the rest of us to not have to deal with bullshit.

[-] rainrain@sh.itjust.works -1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Ahh, so it's ok to fuck with my conversation as long as you, smiletolerantly, think it's legitimate. Whew. That's a relief.

[-] smiletolerantly@awful.systems 2 points 1 month ago

Hm? I have never been a mod of anything :)

[-] hedgehog@ttrpg.network 11 points 2 months ago

Yes, I know, trolls etc. But such action turns any conversation into a bad joke. And anybody who trusts a moderator is a fool.

Not just trolls - there’s much worse content out there, some of which can get you sent to jail in most (all?) jurisdictions.

And even ignoring that, many users like their communities to remain focused on a given topic. Moderation allows this to happen without requiring a vetting process prior to posting. Maybe you don’t want that, but most users do.

Find a better way.

Here’s an option: you can code a fork or client that automatically parses the modlog, finds comments and posts that have been removed, and makes them visible in your feed. You could even implement the ability to reply by hosting replies on a different instance or community.

For you and anyone who uses your fork, it’ll be as though they were never removed.

Do you have issues with the above approach?

[-] SolidShake@lemmy.world 8 points 2 months ago

A mod MAKES the community and makes the rules of that community.

Kinda like how you wouldn't want me to go to your and take a shit on the carpet.

[-] anakin78z@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago

This isn't a shower thought. Mods, please remove.

[-] vatlark@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

I'm a mod here. While it's not one of my favorites, it does follow the format pretty well. I try to use Rule 1 sparingly.

It's a bad look to shutdown critics. I think the votes and comments are doing a good job of bringing perspective to OP's opinion.

[-] anakin78z@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

Thanks for your reply. My post was meant as kind of a joke, but it's good to know the mods actually read through things.

[-] muntedcrocodile@lemm.ee 6 points 2 months ago

I run !news_summary@hilariouschaos.com I don't remove shit unless u are clearly violating the rules its all available via the modlog.

[-] Blaze@lemm.ee 6 points 2 months ago

Mods who power trip get reported to !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com

Not perfect, but that and public modlogs help

[-] rainrain@sh.itjust.works -5 points 2 months ago

It's weird. The simple fact of being watched and told what you can say. And the possibility that what you're saying is being edited and what you're hearing is edited too.

This strikes me as abhorrent. But most of the people here call it necessary, preferable and even desirable.

[-] vatlark@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

I moderate showerthoughts.

I certainly don't know everything but I'm very sure I can't edit other people's posts.

If a post is questionable, then I try to message people and talk it out. We are all human.

Some people wish we moderated more aggressively to keep the post quality higher, others, like yourself wish there was less moderation. I try to leave things up unless there is an obvious violation, I try to apply the rules fairly, I am human.

[-] db2@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago

Does your handler know you're online?

[-] Opinionhaver@feddit.uk 5 points 2 months ago

I blocked all .ml communities so this problem no longer affects me

[-] CarbonatedPastaSauce@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

Manually? Or is there an easier way to mass block them?

[-] vatlark@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

You can block entire instances. You should be able to find it in the settings in your Lemmy app. I know Tesseract and Voyager let you edit it. I think you can also filter by keywords.

[-] CarbonatedPastaSauce@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

Thanks! I use Voyager so I'll poke around in the settings.

[-] sunzu2@thebrainbin.org 0 points 2 months ago

Deny them engagement, let them have their echo chambers

[-] Kolanaki@pawb.social 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Find a better way

Mind explaining what would possibly be better? Having zero moderation isn't it. And if you say AI, I'mma smack you upside the head.

[-] rainrain@sh.itjust.works -3 points 1 month ago

What would be better is a system where the sancttiry of the conversation was respected. Where there was 100% assurance that everything you said got to me and everything I said got to you. No question at all. No man in the middle censoring and altering according to his whim.

[-] Letme@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago

You don't have to participate at all, you realize that right?

[-] rainrain@sh.itjust.works -3 points 2 months ago

It's a discussion of principle.

[-] Letme@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago

If you don't like it, go to Truth Social or X where they never delete any comments, apparently. You are a free man

[-] Ledericas@lemm.ee 2 points 1 month ago

its the same function in all forums that have mods. the problem is some doing it based on personal bias which is the wrong, and reddit allows too much leeway in what mods will ban or remove.

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this post was submitted on 02 Apr 2025

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A "Showerthought" is a simple term used to describe the thoughts that pop into your head while you're doing everyday things like taking a shower, driving, or just daydreaming. The most popular seem to be lighthearted clever little truths, hidden in daily life.

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