[-] CinnasVerses@awful.systems 5 points 1 day ago

In November 2024, Habryka also said " we purchased a $16.5M hotel property, renovated it for approximately $6M and opened it up ... under the name Lighthaven." So the disconnect between what Lightcone says to the taxman (we are small bois, CFAR owns the real estate) and what it says to believers (we own the real estate) was already there.

[-] CinnasVerses@awful.systems 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Over on Buttcoin, David Gerard found this substack post which quotes Lightcone staff in early 2025:

Open Phil generally seems to be avoiding funding anything that might have unacceptable reputational costs for Dustin Moskovitz. Importantly, Open Phil cannot make grants through Good Ventures to projects involved in almost any amount of "rationality community building"

So I think Dustin told OpenPhil "when I read about an organization I funded, I don't want to read about phygs, sexual harassment, or pseudoscientific racism."

[-] CinnasVerses@awful.systems 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

When Habryka says that "Open Philanthropy’s biggest donor asked them to exit our funding area" (email to LessWrongers) / "appears to continue to have some kind of blacklist for recommending grants to us" (public website) could that mean Moskovitz went all e/acc? Or just figured out that millions of dollars/yr is not the going rate to run a forum and host a conference for race pseudoscientists?

[-] CinnasVerses@awful.systems 4 points 2 days ago

I am blissfully ignorant about social scenes in NYC like people in NYC are ignorant of scenes in the city and country where I live.

[-] CinnasVerses@awful.systems 6 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I want to steer this conversation away from psychology to say that this scene still seems to depend on ten or so wealthy patrons (Thiel, Moskovitz, Buterin, Tallinn, SBF, anonymous crypto donor, McClave). Owners of social media sites like Twitter and Substack find them amusing too. Without that money and media backing they would just be another bohemian social movement.

[-] CinnasVerses@awful.systems 6 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

It appears that MIRI had an inflection point in 2019 when they grew from a $3.6m / yr organization to a $6 million / yr. In 2021 they received $25 million in donations and they have been burning that ever since. They received $15.6m in crypto from one anonymous donor and $4.4m in crypto from Vitalik Buterin of Etherium in 2021. Since then they report $1.6m to $1.9m / year of donations, and their December 2025 fundraiser aimed at $6 million and has reached $1.2 million (half of that a match from Survival and Flourishing Fund ie. probably another tech exec or crypto gambler). So MIRI depends on a few rich donors and could not survive in its present form from ordinary rationalists chipping in.

MIRI and Lightcone have unusual calls for donations at the same time. That seems like poor coordination but operations are not our friends' strength.

Their executive compensation exploded from $1.3m to $3.1m in 2024. Their other activities were giving out $280k in grants and spending $34k on a conference. What are they doing with all that money? You don't need $3.1m to write a trade book and get on some podcasts. And they plan to spend faster next year:

Going into 2026, our budget projections have a median of $8M, assuming some growth and large projects, with large error bars from uncertainty about the amount of growth and projects. On the upper end of our projections, our expenses would hit upwards of $10M/yr.

[-] CinnasVerses@awful.systems 4 points 3 days ago

I don't think Yud had any martial-arts training when he wrote the Musashi similes either. He would have made a good novelist or science writer if he could have made himself do the work, because he can write up other people's ideas in his own words.

[-] CinnasVerses@awful.systems 6 points 3 days ago

The Nonlinear Fund from Old!SneerClub seems to have lost their 501(c)3 status because they forgot to file. A donor might be able to sue Lightcone for deceptive advertising but if you donated enough to get anything back after you pay off the lawyers, its probably better just to stop giving like Dustin Moskovitz.

[-] CinnasVerses@awful.systems 8 points 3 days ago

Plus $12,018 in "other reportable compensation." You could support a team of ten graduate students with that money and they would actually make things other than fanfic and publish research!

[-] CinnasVerses@awful.systems 6 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

I liked Dave Karpf's essay on the time Melon Husk showed he was a great poker player by making a big bet, losing everything to the card-counters, and buying back in again and again until he won once.

For Americans reading this, there is probably an essay in analyzing Deciding to Win and relating it to Kelsey Piper's flavour of neoliberal LessWronger and all the tech executives whose campaign contributions in 2024 were mostly to Democrats. Not my country so I am not reading the whole book or writing the essay.

[-] CinnasVerses@awful.systems 3 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

In its 2024 form CFAR says that Lightcone is a "PROJECT BRAND" and "IN 2022 CFAR ACQUIRED THE ROSE GARDEN INN PROPERTY TO EXPAND ITS RESEARCH CENTER OPERATIONS." In its 2024 form Lightcone says it donated $158,765 to the Rose Garden project. It seems that CFAR and Lightcone Rose Garden LLC are the orgs with financial trouble, so why is it Lightcone which made the emergency call for donations? Could Lightcone just give the money to another nonprofit with the same mailing address?

25
submitted 4 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago) by CinnasVerses@awful.systems to c/sneerclub@awful.systems

Its almost the end of the year so most US nonprofits which want to remain nonprofits have filed Form 990 for 2024 including some run by our dear friends. This is a mandatory financial report.

  • Lightcone Infrastructure is here. They operate LessWrong and the Lighthaven campus in Berkeley but list no physical assets; someone on Reddit says that they let fellow travelers like Scott Alexander use their old rented office for free. "We are a registered 501(c)3 and are IMO the best bet you have for converting money into good futures for humanity." They also published a book and website with common-sense, data-based advice for Democratic Party leaders called Deciding to Win which I am sure fills a gap in the literature. Edit: their November 2024 call for donationswhich talks how they spend $16.5m on real estate and $6m on renovations then saw donations collapse is here, an analysis is here
  • CFAR is here. They seem to own the campus in Berkeley ("Land, buildings, and equipment ... less depreciation; $22,026,042"). I don't know what else they do since they stopped teaching rationality workshops in 2016 or so and pivoted to worrying about building Colossus.
  • MIRI is here. They pay Yud ($599,970 in 2024!) and after failing to publish much research on how to build Friend Computer they pivoted to arguing that Friend Computer might not be our friend. Edit: they had about $16 million in mostly financial assets (cash, investments, etc.) at end of year but spent $6.5m against $1.5m of revenue in 2024. Since 2021 they have been consuming a $25 million donation they received that year.
  • BEMC Foundation is here. This husband-and-wife organization gives about $2 million/year each to Vox Future Perfect and GiveWell out of tens of millions of dollars in capital.
  • The Clear Fund (GiveWell) is here. They have the biggest wad of cash and the highest cashflow.
  • Edit: Open Philanthropy (now Coefficient Giving) is here (they have two sister organizations). David Gerard says they are mainly a way for Dustin Moskevitz the co-founder of Facebook to organize donations, like the Gates, Carnegie, and Rockefeller foundations. They used to fund Lightcone.
  • Edit: Animal Charity Evaluators is here. They have funded Vox Future Perfect (in 2020-2021) and the longtermist kind of animal welfare ("if humans eating pigs is bad, isn't whales eating krill worse?")
  • Edit: Survival and Flourishing Fund does not seem to be a charity. Whereas a Lightcone staffer says that SFF funds Lightcone, SFF say that they just connect applicants to donors and evaluate grant applications. So who exactly is providing the money? Sometimes its Jaan Tallinn of Skype and Kazaa.
  • Centre for Effective Altruism is mostly British but has a US wing since March 2025 https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/333737390
  • Edit: Giving What We Can seems like a mainstream "bednets and deworming pills" type of charity
  • Edit: Givedirectly Inc is an excellent idea in principle (give money to poor people overseas and let them figure out how best to use it) but their auditor flagged them for Material noncompliance and Material weakness in internal controls. The mistakes don't seem sinister (they classified $39 million of donations as conditional rather than unconditional- ie. with more restrictions than they actually had). GiveDirectly, Give What We Can, and GiveWell are all much better funded than the core LessWrong organizations.

Since CFAR seem to own Lighthaven, its curious that Lightcone head Oliver Habryka threatens to sell it if Lightcone shut down. One might almost imagine that boundaries between all these organizations are not as clear as the org charts make it seem. SFGate says that it cost $16.5 million plus renovations:

Who are these owners? The property belongs to a limited liability company called Lightcone Rose Garden, which appears to be a stand-in for the nonprofit Center for Applied Rationality and its project, Lightcone Infrastructure. Both of these organizations list the address, 2740 Telegraph Ave., as their home on public filings. They’ve renovated the inn, named it Lighthaven, and now use it to host events, often related to the organizations’ work in cognitive science, artificial intelligence safety and “longtermism.”

Habryka was boasting about the campus in 2024 and said that Lightcone budgeted $6.25 million on renovating the campus that year. It also seems odd for a nonprofit to spend money renovating a property that belongs to another nonprofit.

On LessWrong Habryka also mentions "a property we (Lightcone) own right next to Lighthaven, which is worth around $1M." Lightcone's 2024 paperwork listed the only assets as cash and accounts receivable. So either they are passing around assets like the last plastic cup at a frat party, or they bought this recently while the dispute with the trustees was ongoing, or Habryka does not know what his organization actually owns.

The California end seems to be burning money, as many movements with apocalyptic messages and inexperienced managers do. Revenue was significantly less than expenses and assets of CFAR are close to liabilities. CFAR/Lightcone do not have the $4.9 million liquid assets which the FTX trustees want back and claim their escrow company lost another $1 million of FTX's money.

21
submitted 3 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) by CinnasVerses@awful.systems to c/sneerclub@awful.systems

People connected to LessWrong and the Bay Area surveillance industry often cite David Chapman's "Geeks, Mops, and Sociopaths in Subculture Evolution" to understand why their subcultures keep getting taken over by jerks. Chapman is a Buddhist mystic who seems rationalist-curious. Some people use the term postrationalist.

Have you noticed that Chapman presents the founders of nerdy subcultures as innocent nerds being pushed around by the mean suits? But today we know that the founders of Longtermism and LessWrong all had ulterior motives: Scott Alexander and Nick Bostrom were into race pseudoscience, and Yudkowsky had his kinks (and was also into eugenics and Libertarianism). HPMOR teaches that intelligence is the measure of human worth, and the use of intelligence is to manipulate people. Mollie Gleiberman makes a strong argument that "bednet" effective altruism with short-term measurable goals was always meant as an outer doctrine to prepare people to hear the inner doctrine about how building God and expanding across the Universe would be the most effective altruism of all. And there were all the issues within LessWrong and Effective Altruism around substance use, abuse of underpaid employees, and bosses who felt entitled to hit on subordinates. A '60s rocker might have been cheated by his record label, but that does not get him off the hook for crashing a car while high on nose candy and deep inside a groupie.

I don't know whether Chapman was naive or creating a smokescreen. Had he ever met the thinkers he admired in person?

13

Form 990 for these organizations mentions many names I am not familiar with such as Tyler Emerson. Many people in these spaces have romantic or housing partnerships with each other, and many attend meetups and cons together. A MIRI staffer claims that Peter Thiel funded them from 2005 to 2009, we now know when Jeffrey Epstein donated. Publishing such a thing is not very nice since these are living persons frequently accused of questionable behavior which never goes to court (and some may have left the movement), but does a concise list of dates, places, and known connections exist?

Maybe that social graph would be more of a dot. So many of these people date each other and serve on each other's boards and live in the SF Bay Area, Austin TX, the NYC area, or Oxford, England. On the enshittified site people talk about their Twitter and Tumblr connections.

7
Stephen and Steven (awful.systems)

We often mix up two bloggers named Scott. One of Jeffrey Epstein's victims says that she was abused by a white-haired psychology professor or Harvard professor named Stephen. In 2020, Vice observed that two Harvard faculty members with known ties to Epstein fit that description (a Steven and a Stephen). The older of the two taught the younger. The younger denies that he met or had sex with the victim. What kind of workplace has two people who can be reasonably suspected of an act like that?

I am being very careful about talking about this.

6

An opposition between altruism and selfishness seems important to Yud. 23-year-old Yud said "I was pretty much entirely altruistic in terms of raw motivations" and his Pathfinder fic has a whole theology of selfishness. His protagonists have a deep longing to be world-historical figures and be admired by the world. Dreams of controlling and manipulating people to get what you want are woven into his community like mould spores in a condemned building.

Has anyone unpicked this? Is talking about selfishness and altrusm common in LessWrong like pretending to use Bayesian statistics?

15
submitted 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) by CinnasVerses@awful.systems to c/sneerclub@awful.systems

I used to think that psychiatry-blogging was Scott Alexander's most useful/least harmful writing, because its his profession and an underserved topic. But he has his agenda to preach race pseudoscience and 1920s-type eugenics, and he has written in some ethical grey areas like stating a named friend's diagnosis and desired course of treatment. He is in a community where many people tell themselves that their substance use is medicinal and want proscriptions. Someone on SneerClub thinks he mixed up psychosis and schizophrenia in a recent post.

If you are in a registered profession like psychiatry, it can be dangerous to casually comment on your colleagues. Regardless, has anyone with relevant qualifications ever commented on his psychiatry blogging and whether it is a good representation of the state of knowledge?

31
submitted 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) by CinnasVerses@awful.systems to c/sneerclub@awful.systems

Bad people who spend too long on social media call normies NPCs as in video-game NPCs who follow a closed behavioural loop. Wikipedia says this slur was popular with the Twitter far right in October 2018. Two years before that, Maciej Ceglowski warned:

I've even seen people in the so-called rationalist community refer to people who they don't think are effective as ‘Non Player Characters’, or NPCs, a term borrowed from video games. This is a horrible way to look at the world.

Sometime in 2016, an anonymous coward on 4Chan wrote:

I have a theory that there are only a fixed quantity of souls on planet Earth that cycle continuously through reincarnation. However, since the human growth rate is so severe, the soulless extra walking flesh piles around us are NPC’s (sic), or ultimate normalfags, who autonomously follow group think and social trends in order to appear convincingly human.

Kotaku says that this post was rediscovered by the far right in 2018.

Scott Alexander's novel Unsong has an angel tell a human character that there was a shortage of divine light for creating souls so "I THOUGHT I WOULD SOLVE THE MORAL CRISIS AND THE RESOURCE ALLOCATION PROBLEM SIMULTANEOUSLY BY REMOVING THE SOULS FROM PEOPLE IN NORTHEAST AFRICA SO THEY STOPPED HAVING CONSCIOUS EXPERIENCES." He posted that chapter in August 2016 (unsongbook.com). Was he reading or posting on 4chan?

Did any posts on LessWrong use this insult before August 2016?

Edit: In HPMOR by Eliezer Yudkowsky (written in 2009 and 2010), rationalist Harry Potter calls people who don't do what he tells them NPCs. I don't think Yud's Harry says they have no souls but he has contempt for them.

[-] CinnasVerses@awful.systems 15 points 3 months ago

I know that on the American right, every accusation is a confession, but I never thought I would read a scheming cartoon villain accusing his enemies of being the Antichrist! He is even queer-coded, would do great on TV in the 1990s.

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CinnasVerses

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