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submitted 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) by USSBurritoTruck@startrek.website to c/risa@startrek.website
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Trill Symbiont Lifespans (startrek.website)
submitted 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) by USSBurritoTruck@startrek.website to c/startrek@startrek.website

SFA episode 5 spoilers!!!

We were just introduced to Illa Dax, the latest host of the Dax symbiont, in the most recent episode of SFA, 'Series Acclimation Mil'. This has sparked some consternation in certain online Trek circles, because in the Disco episode, 'Jinaal', Adira claimed that is rare for a Trill symbiont to live past 800 years, but not unheard of. The Dax symbiont was born in 2018, so as of 3195 when SFA takes place, the symbiont is 1177 years old, give or take a bit to account for time travel or what have you.

Some thoughts!

in 'Jinaal', the discussion revolves around the Bix symbiont, that was active in the 24th century. The Trill xenobiologist, Jinaal, joined with Bix so that his knowledge of the Progenitors would live on past him and could be passed on to someone worthy of using the information. However, we don't know anything about Bix's hosts.

Jinaal could very well have been its first host, but I don't think that's likely given that it seems unlikely the symbiosis commission would agree to grant a new symbiont to a host simply because he "has some really important information," and "trust me, bro!" More likely Jinaal discussed it with Bix's previous host, and the symbiont agreed that Jinaal's mission was an important one.

Also, not for nothing, but Dax was over 150 years old when it was joined with its first host, so assuming that is standard, even if Jinaal was Bix's first host, it would be closer to 950 years old.

Regardless, it is unusual for symbionts to live to be more than 800. Fair enough. That information comes from Adira, who is joined to the Tal symbiont, so presumably they would know. In the liminal space where Adira meets and is accepted by the previous Tal hosts, one them is wearing a Starfleet uniform from the late 24th century, and it's established that he was not Tal's first host, so Tal is presumably also closing around 800 years of age.

In 'Jinaal' it's stated that Bix and its current host, Kalzara, are both essentially waiting to die, only holding on so they can pass on the knowledge of the Progenitor's power. Kalzara does die, and then Bix is returned to the pools of Mak'ala while be eulogized by Grey and Xi, the implication being Bix did not live much longer.

So, we know:

    • Most symbionts don't live past 800

    • The Dax and Bix symbionts did live past 800, and signs would indicate that so the Tal symbiont did as well.

    • Bix was ready to die when its purpose was finished.

I would venture that symbionts have some measure of control over their natural lifespan. They don't necessarily age the same way other beings, but so long as they're in an environment they can survive in, such as the pools, or a living host, they can survive for many centuries undeterred.

But, after a certain amount of living, symbionts choose to die. And I think that's because of who who their hosts are. In season one of DS9, we saw the recently joined Jadzia explain to Bashir that Trill attempt to "live on a higher plane" and avoid temptation. Obviously that inclination did not last very long for Jadzia, but I think it speaks to the sort of individuals the Symbiosis Commission selects to be joined. Only the best of the best get to join, and most often we see joined Trill as, reserved, high minded, trying to live up to the ideal of their species.

Several of the Dax hosts are a bit different, though. Jadzia had a lust for life that we saw on screen. Even early on, we're told that Curzon was lustful and adventurous. Torias was a test pilot. Emony, an Olympic gymnast who caroused with Starfleet officers. Dax hosts have frequently broke the mold. They go out and they live life, which is not the impression we get of most joined Trill.

So, I think the reason most symbionts choose to not live to 800 years is that they get bored. Their experiences are limited by the sorts of people who make it through the Symbiosis Commission selection process.

The ones who live longer are those like Bix, who have a specific purpose they feel the need to fulfil, or Dax who is constantly going out and experiencing new things. I suspect the Tal symbiont is in that later group, considering three of it's five hosts prior to Grey were all Starfleet officers.

Further, I believe that this could also explain why in the 32nd century, there are not enough Trill capable of joining anymore, as we learned in 'Forget Me Not', despite it being established in 'Equilibrium' that more Trill than it was commonly believed were capable of joining. The symbionts aren't finding the staid, tranquil life of the Trill to be fulfilling any more. They seek out new experiences, and, especially post-Burn when space travel was severely curtailed for 100 years, new experiences were more difficult to come by.

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[-] USSBurritoTruck@startrek.website 33 points 2 years ago

My reading -- and what appears to be the interpretation of others who've commented as well -- is that the transphobe thinks biology agrees with them, while the biologist are explicitly saying they do not align with transphobes.

[-] USSBurritoTruck@startrek.website 41 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Right, but what is the image saying that's false?

[-] USSBurritoTruck@startrek.website 45 points 2 years ago

I'm sure that you feel like you're saying something very profound, but for most people that's just gibberish.

[-] USSBurritoTruck@startrek.website 44 points 2 years ago

You also violated Starfleet protocols which require us to not interfere with developing cultures.

image

[-] USSBurritoTruck@startrek.website 36 points 2 years ago

Jeepers, this is fucking clown shit. Have a time out.

[-] USSBurritoTruck@startrek.website 28 points 2 years ago

While I appreciate the addition, I feel like Weyoun would command Damar to return the cart.

Damar would then drunkenly push it into the cart return and not pick it up when it fell over.

[-] USSBurritoTruck@startrek.website 30 points 2 years ago

Depends on the episode.

When Quark is abducted from Deep Space 9 in "House of Quark" he's taken clear across the entire Federation and into the Klingon Empire in about a day. And then D'Ghor sends someone to the station to grab Rom and get him back to Qo'noS the next day.

Trek moves at the speed of plot.

[-] USSBurritoTruck@startrek.website 70 points 2 years ago

Fuck Jackie Marks and the appropriating grift he rode in on.

[-] USSBurritoTruck@startrek.website 32 points 2 years ago

• Dak’Rah speaks of a chancellor who asked him about a Klingon speaking on behalf of the Federation, and he uses masculine pronouns while doing so. The title of chancellor has been used to describe a variety of positions, but I suspect that I am not the only one who initially assumed Dak’Rah was speaking of the chancellor of the Klingon Empire, their head of state. Last we saw, L’Rell was still chancellor, after having taken over in “Will You Take My Hand?”

”tlhIngan maH taHjaj.” Ortegas recites the rallying cry of T’Kuvma’s followers from “The Vulcan Hello”, ”Remain Klingon.”

• Uhura learned about Aenar philosophy from Hemmer in “Memento Mori”, and we learned that they’re pacifists in “The Aenar”.

• Doctor M’Benga and La’an have been practicing Mok’bara, a Klingon martial art Worf taught aboard the USS Enterprise D as seen in “Clues”. As per “The Vulcan Hello”, prior to the Federation-Klingon War, there was effectively no contact between the Federation and the Empire for 100 years, which does raise the question of how two Starfleet officers would have been able to learn Mok’bara.

• The red martial arts uniforms Doctor M’Benga and Dak’Rah wear for their Mok’Bara sparing session resemble the ones we see worn in “Charlie X” when Kirk is showing Charlie Evans some throws in the work facilities. Except those uniforms had tight leggings, an a Starfleet delta on the chest.

• In the flashback to J’Gal, we see the Klingons there all wore their hair long. Every Klingon we saw in season one, from heads of Great Houses to guys urinating in back alleys, was bald, and in “Point of Light” we learned that it was specifically because they were at war, first with other Klingons, and then with then with the Federation. We also so that each House had individual customs for dress and body modification, so unreasonable to assume that whichever House Dak’Rah and the other Klingons who held J’Gal were loyal to did not engage in such tonsure.

     • The Klingon warlords we see Doctor M’Benga kill in the flashback are wearing the same armour as D’Chok in “The Broken Circle”.

• The D’k thag dagger was introduced in “Star Trek: The Search for Spock”.

• According to Doctor M’Benga’s service record, he was born in 2223, meaning he would be 36 years old.

• The subtitles for the episode call the Klingon homeworld ”Kronos,” but fortunately the map Number One gives to Pike has it labelled ”Qo’noS,” as it should be.

”How can we represent a Federation that believes in peace if we say some people aren’t allowed to make up for their past.” For example, Pike will probably be very grateful that during the events of “The Menagerie, Part I” the Talosians choose not to display the moment where he claimed, “It's just that I can't get used to having a woman on the bridge.” Look how far he’s come in only five years!

• Doctor M’Benga tells Dak’Rah, ”You turned me into a monster.” In “The Wounded”, Chief O’Brien tells a Cardassian officer, “It’s not you I hate, Cardassian. I hate what I became because of you.”

• Dak’Rah accidentally stabs himself during the struggle with Doctor M’Benga. In “The House of Quark”, a Klingon named Kozak accidentally stabbed himself while fighting Quark, an in “The Vulcan Hello”, the Klingon Torchbearer stabbed himself after ambushing Michael Burnham.

[-] USSBurritoTruck@startrek.website 39 points 2 years ago

”Have you noticed their references are weirdly specific?” Number One is also concerned about my going way over the character limit on this post.”

• Boimler power walks away after being startled by Number One. He claimed that power walking is more efficient in “Envoys”. Apparently Section 31 does it.

• Mariner tells Uhura that while she’s known for being a super-translating space adventurer in the future, part of that reputation is that she’s carefree. In episodes like “Charlie X” and “The Man Trap” we see Uhura singing in the recreation room, and flirting with Spock.

• Mariner performs the Picard Maneuver when standing up.

• On her PADD, Uhura is looking at examples of the Bajoran and Cardassian alphabets, which are labeled as such. This is the first indication that the Federation had made contact with either civilization prior to the TNG era.

     • There is a comatose Cardassian being held by the automated shipyard in “Dead Stop”, but no one actually really sees him.

• Starbase Earhart was first mentioned in “The Samaritan Snare” when Captain Picard tells Wesley the story of his being stabbed through the heart by a Nausican, and we first see the base in “Tapestry” when Q sends Picard’s consciousness back through time to that event.

     • “Tapestry” is also the first mention of dom-jot.

     • Mariner describes dom-jot as “A billiards game that Nausicans are terrible at, but love to bet on for some reason.” We see Mariner playing dom-jot against Nausicans at Starbase Earhart in “We’ll Always Have Tom Paris”.

• Pelia and Boimler share a moment staring at the warp core. Boimler has a long established history of being a fan of warp cores, going back to his first episode, “Second Contact”.

• Pelia’s quote, “I always pretended to be someone I wanted to be, until finally I became that someone…or he became me,”* is paraphrasing Cary Grant.

”Don’t yell Q, they haven’t met him yet.” Q first reveals himself in “Encounter at Farpoint”

     • ”They had kind of a Trelene thing going on.” Trelene appears in “The Squire of Gothos” and, so far no where else.

• The Enterprise crew starts expressing enthusiasm for the past, specifically the NX-01.

     • Pike mentions that he would be excited to set foot on Archer’s Enterprise. In “These Are the Voyages…” we learn that he is the one who wrote the parameters for a popular holo-simulation where the user plays the role of the NX-01’s chef.

     • La’an says she loves grapplers, which first appeared in the ENT premiere, “Broken Bow”.

     • Ortegas claims, ”I’m a huge fan of Travis Mayweather. First pilot of the NX-01*.” Presumably there had to be at least one.

     • Uhura mentions Hoshi Sato having spoken 86 languages. In “Two Days and Two Nights” it’s established that Hoshi learned 38 languages before having left Earth, and that she knows ”about 40” as of that episode.

• I believe this is the first time the Fleet Museum is referred to as the Starfleet History Museum, but both locations have the NX-01, as per “The Bounty”.

• We learn that Number One is featured on a Starfleet recruitment poster, including the words “Ad Astra per Aspera” which was the motto of the United Earth Starfleet and, we learn, of personal importance to Number one in the episode “Ad Astra per Aspera”.

     • The poster featuring Number One was not seen among the recruitment material Mariner and Boimler took when they set up their booth on Tulgana IV in “Reflections”.

• It was established that Tendi is the Mistress of the Winter Constellations in “We’ll Always Have Tom Paris”.

• It’s Jack Ransom! From Star Trek! Ransom is voiced by Jerry O’Connell.

“Oh, Numero Una, hottest first officer in Starfleet history.” Rebecca Romijn and Jerry O’Connell are married.

• Drinking the Orion delaq causes the Enterprise crew to experience visual hallucinations similar to what Mariner, and Boimler went through after being exposed to nitrous oxide in “Room for Growth”. Tendi was immune.

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