[-] pocket_tofu@hexbear.net 7 points 9 months ago

It was more about how docile and boring and unromantic and patriarchal women are here

it's so funny to be like "I want women to hit on me, but I don't want to change anything about myself and I hate women"

[-] pocket_tofu@hexbear.net 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I can't believe every comment is saying you should let your kid eat corpses. I assume you wouldn't let your kid kick puppies or hurt their peers. It's the same thing. It's actually good to teach your kids right and wrong. Veganism is not a personal choice or journey. It's an issue of justice. It's not like you're teaching oppressive, reactionary ideology. There's no both sides here. It's good when leftists teach their kids to fight racism and sexism and injustice; it's bad when fascists teach their kids to have no respect for anyone different from them. It's good when vegan parents teach their kids to respect non-human lives; it's bad when carnist parents teach their kids it's okay to harm other animals for entertainment and flavor.

[-] pocket_tofu@hexbear.net 1 points 1 year ago

I'm queer, asshole

[-] pocket_tofu@hexbear.net 0 points 1 year ago

You know, there's actually been studies done about the bigotry vegans face

vegans are viewed more negatively than atheists, immigrants, homosexuals, and asexuals

From a study linked in this article: https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2018/11/2/18055532/vegans-vegetarian-research-uk

But you tell carnists they're being abusive harassers and they say we deserve everything that comes to us. Hey, bigots, you know veganism is actually a protected belief in a lot of places and where it isn't protected, it should be. It doesn't surprise me that carnists here give me the same victim blaming I get irl from right wing misogynists. Sorry not sorry for being uppity instead of erasing myself for the sake of your vibes.

Most vegans don't talk about this bc the bigotry and exclusion and hatred we receive is nothing compared to the way carnists and their sick system of animal agriculture treat nonhumans. But it does no one any favors to ignore how or community is repeatedly marginalized everywhere we go, in person and online. Vegans are isolated and alienated and many lose connection and support from their friends, family, and community when they choose to stand up for nonhumans. Sometimes online spaces are literally the only place where leftist vegans can find each other and talk.

The US state views us as literal terrorists, you know. So many animal rights activists from the previous generation were imprisoned and are still behind bars. But god forbid someone tell a carnist their treats are killing animals and the earth. Treats matter more than lives, and anyone who says otherwise is a huge asshole who should be ostracized

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submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by pocket_tofu@hexbear.net to c/vegan@hexbear.net

The constant harassment and abuse from speciesist reactionaries is what drove us off. But mentioning that part would ruin the narrative that vegans are the bad guys

Reminder: https://archive.ph/Xl1Kd

[-] pocket_tofu@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

No problem! I always try to back up my effortposts just for situations like this. I was always told the internet is forever, but it's really the opposite. Information gets lost all the time

[-] pocket_tofu@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

since the old one poofed :hail-seitan:

Also, here's this same post on reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/VeganTheoryClub/comments/u1w7qy/vegan_marxist_masterpost

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submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by pocket_tofu@hexbear.net to c/vegan@hexbear.net

Alternate link: https://mronline.org/2018/08/28/18-theses-on-marxism-and-animal-liberation

This can be read in a sitting, so please read it!

"We do not exploit animals because we deem them to be inferior, rather, we deem animals to be inferior because we exploit them."

-Marco Maurizi

:vegan-liberation-rad: :vegan-liberation-rad: :vegan-liberation-rad:

“Beasts of Burden" an influential socialist-animalist pamphlet from 1999

Marxism and the Animal Question by Maila Costa

Beyond Nature: Animal Liberation, Marxism, and Critical Theory, by Marco Maurizi

"In Beyond Nature Maurizi tackles the animal question from an unprecedented perspective: strongly criticizing the abstract moralism that has always characterized animal rights activism, the author proposes a historical-materialistic analysis of the relationship between humans and non-humans.

"By contrasting the thinking of Hegel, Marx and the Frankfurt School with classical authors in the field of animal rights (such as Singer, Regan, and Francione) this text offers an alternative, social and dialectical theory of animality and a different practical approach to the problem of animal suffering. The hopes for change placed in veganism, liberationism and animal activism are here assumed in a political, revolutionary perspective, in which human and animal liberation finally cease to oppose each other."

-- https://brill.com/view/title/56579

Archive of vegan leftist theory (Zines, journals, print media, etc)

Another archive of vegan leftist theory

Non-human animals within contemporary capitalism: A Marxist account of non-human animal liberation

Abstract: Many intellectuals, various social movements, as well as all manner of individuals from around the globe who are critical of the ills of global, expansionist capitalism have written, spoken out about, and called for everything from minor changes to radical changes to the existing social, political and economic order. Moreover, many of these groups and individuals have used the tools of Marx’s critique of capitalism in order to advance their positions and calls for change. While most critics of the existing social, political and economic order advance their critical examination of capitalist-spawned injustices with the hope of providing a foundation for us to explore ways to resist, disrupt and replace them, with few exceptions, usually this exploration is confined to (or at least focused on) human communities. However, in this essay, using some key concepts in Marx’s oeuvre, I examine how the global expansion of capitalism, together with its requisite increase in structures of power and domination, are responsible for the intensification of similar injustices for non-human animals, which, according to Marx’s own theoretical commitments, I argue, should also be resisted and, indeed, eradicated. On the flip side, in addition to arguing that a proper understanding of some of Marx’s most fundamental commitments requires us to fight not only for human but for non-human animal liberation, I also argue that genuine animal liberation requires the radical disruption of capitalism and that the more common, less radical animal liberation movements are insufficient for bringing about this end.

Carnists suffer under false consciousness.

Abstract: Despite the strength of arguments for veganism in the animal rights literature, alongside environmental and other anthropocentric concerns posed by industrialised animal agriculture, veganism remains only a minority standpoint. In this paper, I explore the moral motivational problem of veganism from the perspectives of moral psychology and political false consciousness. I argue that a novel interpretation of the post-Marxist notion of political false consciousness may help to make sense of the widespread refusal to shift towards veganism. Specifically, the notion of false consciousness fills some explanatory gaps left by the moral psychological notion of akrasia, often understood to refer to a weakness of will. Central to my approach is the idea that animal exploitation is largely systemic and the assumption that moral motivation is inseparable from moral thinking. In this light, the primary obstacle to the adoption of veganism arises not so much from a failure to put genuine beliefs into action, but rather in a shared, distorted way of thinking about animals. Thus, common unreflective objections to veganism may be said to be manifestations of false consciousness.

The bourgeois meat hegemony: a contribution to explaining the persistence of animal super-exploitation in capitalism (Gramscian veganism)

Abstract: This paper develops programmatically the concept of meat hegemony with recourse to Antonio Gramsci’s notions of the integral state and of hegemony. It conceptualizes meat hegemony as a reciprocal interplay between (a) the state monopoly on the use of force (which guarantees private property in animals and the exchange of meat-based commodities), and (b) the manufacturing of consent within the working and middle classes towards the accumulation of meat capital. This is achieved, first, by the politico-ideological and organizational unification of meat capital and, second, by economic concessions to subaltern class fractions, a carnivorous mode of life, and pro-meat ideologies. The meat hegemony is rooted in the capitalist socioeconomic relations between capital and labor (capital relation) and capital and animals (capital-animal relation). They produce a contradiction between capital on the one hand and wage laborers and animals on the other which needs to be regulated politically, culturally, and ideologically in order to guarantee the economic reproduction of meat capital.

Animal Resistance in the Global Capitalist Era, by Sarat Colling

"There's really no such thing as the 'voiceless'. There are only the deliberately silenced, or the preferably unheard."

-- Arundhati Roy

"The concept of animal resistance is now reaching a wide audience across the social media landscape. Animal Resistance in the Global Capitalist Era offers an overview of how animals resist human orderings in the context of capitalism, domestication, and colonization. Exploring this understudied phenomenon, this book is attentive to both the standpoints of animal resisters and the ways they are represented in human society. Together, these lenses provide insight into how animals’ resistance disrupts the dominant paradigm of human exceptionalism and the distancing strategies of enterprises that exploit animals for profit. Animals have been relegated to the margins by human spatial and ideological orderings, but they are also the subjects of their own struggle, located at the center of their liberation movement. Well-researched and accessible, with over fifty images that aid in understanding both the experiences of and responses to animals who resist, Animal Resistance in the Global Capitalist Era is an important contribution to scholarship on animals and society. The text will appeal to a broad audience interested in the relationships between humans and the other animals with whom we share this planet."

And some more reading and discussion:

I also found an interview about the 18 Theses here (use your browser or something to translate):

http://yenie.net/marksizm-ve-hayvan-ozgurlesmesi-birlik-hayvan-ozgurlesmesi-sorunu-marksizm-geleneginde-mevcut

And this cool article discussing and building on the Theses:

http://yenie.net/hayvan-ozgurlesmesi-ve-marksizm

One thing I like about this article is how affirming it is about the contributions of other leftist tendencies towards developing animal liberation theory, in a way acting as stepping stones towards its realization in a Marxist theoretical framework. It also has a cool discussion about the place of ethics in scientific Marxism. I won't quote all of it, but here's a tiny bit:

The contradictions we face or witness in life push us to take an ethical position, and then - if it happens - this attitude embraces a scientific method. Che gives the best answer to those who think that ethics has no place in Marxism: "The revolutionary is the one who feels the slap of another person on his face."

:che-poggers:

Marxismus & Tierbefreiung (Marxism & Animal Liberation) org: https://linktr.ee/mutb https://mutb.org/categories/interviews

Note: I'll keep updating this post.

[-] pocket_tofu@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

Reactionaries are explicitly not allowed per the rules of hexbear. They continue to be protected, but it's not too late to ban them

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hexbear.jpg (hexbear.net)

Am I the asshole for responding to the question "hey, would you like there to be NSFW tags on my BBQ [corpses] a week from now?" with "I would like that, thanks."

Hexbear users: a week's worth of struggle sessions about how vegans are lying assholes who are only pretending to have trauma to personally target carnists and make them feel bad

But it's the vegans who are assholes

pocket_tofu

joined 3 years ago