There is no such thing. Every "generic, terminal-based installer" is in reaity a script that was intentionally made to target many multiple distributions.

And do you know what most of them do...? Use the inbuilt package manager of your distro.

That and set up some systemd services and PATHs, sometimes.

You're such a fucking goober.

If I had a nickel for every time someone ignored me just to say something I directly address...

You are pretty blatantly referencing X11 Forwarding / Network Transparency.

I can't reasonably assume you actually read anything I say, but to briefly reiterate:

Checkout Waypipe. Here's a direct quote from the README:

Waypipe is a proxy for Wayland clients. It forwards Wayland messages and serializes changes to shared memory buffers over a single socket. This makes application forwarding similar to ssh -X feasible.

Have you tried this? What is disatisfactory about it? And if all else fails, is there really ANY problem with simply using VNC/etc? What real-world problem do you have that is uniquely solved with this?

What? I've gotten RDP, VNC, and SPICE working fine on Wayland. And if you need app-level displays then waypipe worked fine the last time I used it. I've been running Proxmox containers with Wayland just fine, too.

Any particular use case that benefits from what Xorg was uniquely capable of networking-wise (network transparency, afaik?) of is quite niche and development effort twoards that end has always reflected that!

I've not been able to find the git or project repo/writeup of "Wayland on Wires". Though i do vaguely feel like I saw it somewhere.

But I suppose me and my ongoing computer science degree and shared family hobby of IT simply hasn't reached Real Linux User levels yet. I must sharpen my Bash Blade for another 1000 years...

Since that's the case, I suppose I must defer to your Infinitely Endless Wisdom as a True Linux User. I beg of thee, answer my Most Piteous Questions...:

1. What do you use Xorg's networking functionality for?
2. What is ""real"" Linux work?
3. Why can't you use Wayland for that?
4. Have you heard of Waypipe? Have you used it?

"Linux as a desktop is BAD!"

"Evidence?"

"I failed to make a slideshow in a buggy application. :'("

In all seriousness, though, wtf? You could have pulled from any of the well-know papercuts and instead you balk about a broken application? Lmao?

My vibeo gaem crashed on Windows once. I guess I should hold Microsoft personally accountable for it....

For the record, I've used Linux throughout Highschool, Community College, and College. No issues with basic software functionality, really.

The worst and only issue I've had in that regard is self-inflicted because I decided to run LibreOffice via Wayland, which has an ongoing bug that makes scrolling laggy. That's it.

The larger issues with Linux as a desktop is software compat (Wine) with Windows for nicher use cases (requires debugging and a bunch of setup), certain drivers (cough cough Nvidia cough cough), and general dumbass-proofing.

Can we just let this shit die already? If you're unsatisfied with Wayland make extensions to the protocol or make a new one.

Why in the fuck are so many people obssessed over a piece of software that contains an entire networking stack and has a security model so bad that it lets literally every application keylog you constantly?

It is self-evident that free software with open licensing and no strings attached is a superior and more beneficial ownership model than closed source paid licensing. That part I don't think anyone needs to be convinced of.

As someone who has both technical and nontechnical people in their family, I call bs. Even if it is partially self-evident (in the fact that you dont need to sign into an account or pay for it), the details, and more importantly the weight, of FOSS is often lost on people.

I've had to watch some of them walk into a rake and bruise their foreheads several times over before really absorbing it.

It's something people need to really read up on before true comprehension. That, or get burnt really really badly.

Ideology? Politics? Tomato tomatoh in my eyes. At the very least, they're nearly inseperable (think: DMCA, copyright law, etc.)

Go is a simpler-to-read language that does not involve lifetimes (as you know, it is GC'd). For a lot of smaller projects like this, the boringness of Go is preferred. Less mental bandwidth required.

I'll admit my definition of "industrial" here was vague, but I think you can get my point. I'm not trying to say that Rust isn't good in a business setting - my job also has Rust in the code!

However, for these purposes, most of the benefits of Rust in this situation are already provided by Go.

I really have no idea why everyone is bashing Signal so much here. None of the concerns listed seem even slightly technical.

The only problem I have with signal is that it is:

A. Centralized (which isn't explicitly a privacy concern, but a control concern in-line with linux and foss)

B. Requires a phone number to register.

It is quite private in spite of that, and goes to great lengths to achieve that privacy. It is what I see people in the security community consistently suggest.

However, if this is a public group, are we to really be that concerned about many of the considerations Signal tries to tackle? Worst case scenario a bad actor simply enters the chat and backs everything up.

It seems like our threat model is moreso in the way of general surveillance economy concerns (and perhaps to have a slightly less public entry).

In this case, point A and B become even more glaring! Why not something like an E2E encrypted Matrix chat?

On the one hand, Toybox exists. So, the non-copyleft license bs isn't new. On the other hand, toybox afaik isnt aiming to treat "deviations with GNu as bugs". Almost feels hostile-takeover-ish though I know that almost certinly isn't the idea behindbit.

If this ends in proprietization bs I'm going to throw hands.

That's a lot better than it could be. But I'm also talking about training costs. Models have to be updated to work swimmingly with new languages, conventions, libraries, etc. Models are not future-proof.

There are more efficient training methods being employed. See: the stuff R1 used. And existing models cam be retooled. But it's still an intrinsic problem.

Perhaps most importantly it's out of the reach of common consumer grade hardware to train a half decent LLM from scratch. It's a tech that exists mostly in the scope of concentrated power among peoole who care little for their enviromental ramifications. Relying on this in the short term puts influence and power in the hands of people willing to burn our planet. Quite the hard sell, as you might imagine.

Also see: the other points I made

I aint just talking about inference. Training costs are insane and models have to be updated to be used well with new languages, libraries, etc.

chawan