And yet my comment did not suggest any views in either direction and only addressed the specific point of selective schools.

I've not suggested otherwise, so I don't know why you felt compelled to point that out.

You're moving goalposts. You claimed ANCs attacks were inconsequential, and now you've changed your tone to focus on civilian attacks.

Sure, they carried out fewer and smaller civilian attacks than Hamas.

There are absolutely arguments over what the most effective use of violent resistance is, and to be clear I have never claimed that Hamas' method is particularly effective, and it might very well be entirely counter-productive. What I argued was specifically against this:

Although the ANC did declare an armed struggle against the White regime, in fact their attacks were inconsequential and contributed nothing to the struggle. The game-changer was a concerted campaign to mobilise world opinion. It was sanctions and isolation that ended apartheid, not bullets.

But specifically to what you claimed in this latest reply, I do remember the bombing campaign that targeted a range of Wimpy burger joints during lunch hour. I do remember the regular use of limpet mines against sports venues, bus stations, shopping centres and other shops, restaurants. They were regular enough that they are one of the regular features of the 1980's evening news that was seared into my memory as a child despite growing up half a world away.

The ANC liked to pretend they didn't target civilians, but in the 90's applications were made to the Truth and Reconciliation Committee by ANC members who admitted to bombing civilians, and ANC themselves submitted a lengthy list of bombings to the TRC which also included a long list of civilian bombings that they claimed to be "uncertain" who carried out but nevertheless submitted in a longer list of their operations alongside the police and military attacks you mention. These lists are readily available.

Mandela "escaped" being tarnished by this in large part because he was in prison from years before MK escalated from sabotage to bombings, and to this day it's unclear how much he personally knew, especially about the civilian attacks. It's clear other members of the ANC leadership, like Oliver Tambo and Joe Slovo, knew, however.

Apartheid started in 1948, but segregation had existed for 40 years by then, and the fight for equal rights preceded the formal start of Apartheid.

What is clear with respect to Mandela is that he doubled down on the necessity of violence to his death and was clear that things got worse during ANCs nonviolent fight and first improved when they started fighting back. He held onto that view to his death.

ANC was founded in 1912 as segregation was just ramping up. 36 years after they were founded, Apartheid was passed.

They didn't start killing until 1976, after 64 years of the world mostly quietly ignoring them as oppression got worse and worse.

1 year after they started killing, the UN finally made the voluntary and ineffectual arms embargo binding. 8 years after they started killing, the disinvestment campaign started seriously hurting the South African economy. 13 years after they started killing, Thatcher called the ANC a terrorist organisation at the Commonwealth summit, but beside having gone from being seen as a harmless nuisance to being called terrorists by both the UK and US governments, they won the struggle 14 years after they took up arms. But 78 years after they started fighting.

As such, I'll take Mandelas words on the importance of their armed struggle over yours any day.

There are over 160 selective secondary state/public schools in England. Being state run does not prevent the existence of selective schools.

Your blood and soil arguments are entirely irrelevant to the point that Israel itself does not make the extremist claims you're making. You keep recycling this despite its total lack of relevance to the argument. And in doing so you're aligning yourself with a tiny minority of the most far-right extremist fascist-adjacent Israeli parties.

beyond the fact they agreed to a 2 state solution in the 90s then reneged and attacked Israel

Again you're collectively blaming a population, the majority of which were not born when the Oslo accords were signed (look it up; 65% of the Palestinian population is below 25 years old, and the Oslo accords were signed 30 years ago) for actions a far higher proportion had no influence over.

beyond the fact they elect a genocidal government that will only bring themselves ruin

I'm assuming you don't get the irony in writing this when it can be equally applied to Israel.

Of the two sides, only one has a government actively engaged in what covers a substantial portion o stage 8 of Stantons ten stages of genocide.

When you cut toddlers throats and rape Innocents who have NO SLIGHTS AGAINST YOU, film it for fun plus have genocide as your prime governmental policy I give 0 shits about your plight regardless of what pushed you there. You deserve to get pushed around by the people you have a desire to wipe off the face of this Earth. To quote the bible, “live by the sword, die by the sword.”

This boils down to "it's ok to murder innocents and oppress people and want to get rid of people because the other side murdered innocents and wants to get rid of you". Unless you're an utter hypocrite, you'd apply that to both sides. Yet this "logic" is meaningless if applied to both sides. By your own logic, Israelis deserve to get pushed around because some of them have murdered innocents and because some of them wants Israel to annex all the land (to be clear, despite your argument in favour of collective punishment: they don't; just like Palestinians don't deserve to be collectively punished for the actions of a few either). But if that is the case, you have no moral basis for your uproar over Hamas' actions - by your own logic you shouldn't give 0 shits about it.

Yet you clearly do. So clearly you're not applying that logic to both sides.

You're conveniently only applying it to the Palestinian population, whom you've elsewhere also implied collectively are untrustworthy and likely to try to take over any state who might invite them in.

Again, note how quick you are to be ok with collective suffering for Palestine for the actions of some, while you're up in arms about the suffering of a portion of Israelis for the actions of some.

Can you see how this deeply hypocritical and one-sided demonisation of Palestinians as a people, whom you have elsewhere implied are collectively untrustworthy and a risk of trying to take over, comes across as racist?

Because I certainly do.

I have no interest in continuing to indulge you in your ongoing demonisation of a population of five million people of whom the vast majority has done no wrong other than been born in what is effectively an open air prison where you, to quote you think they "deserve to get pushed around" despite the majority of them never having voted in any violently oppressive government (and that holds for the majority of Israelis too, though sadly not for the majority of the electorate - but just as I don't hold all Palestinians responsible for the actions of some, neither to dI hold all Israelis responsible for the actions of some; have a think about that).

And so I'll shortly be blocking you, so I don't have to deal with any more attempts at justifying oppression of innocents because of the crimes of some.

Heh, yeah, that's part of what's currently keeping me on X. I use little more than a bunch of shells and Chrome, so there's not many incentives for me to switch. All of my Ruby X tools are very light on the X11 API use, so they'll eventually be fairly simple to migrate over, but the window manager vs. compositor situation is frustrating.

I'm somewhat tempted to hack together some FrankenCompositor based on wlroots that implements the bare minimum of the X11 protocol to allow an X11 window manager to to manage the windows. The X11 protocol itself is simple, and while making every WM run would be a ton of work, if you first have a Wayland compositor making it possible to run simpler WMs wouldn't actually necessarily be so bad. Not likely to happen anytime soon, though, it's not exactly necessary and I'm not that much of a masochist :)

A somewhat more sane variant might be FFI bindings for wlroots so it's possible to use it to build a compositor, but that too seems an awful lot more work than an X window manager.

"Those other people are also xenophobes" isn't the great argument you think it is.

Do you have evidence that a huge majority wants to take over states if they are invited in, which was the claim you were making?

To quote you:

The whole reason they don’t take Palestinians in is because Palestinians try to take their country over.

It happened in Jordan, it happened in Lebanon. It will happen anywhere they are allowed to congregate.

This is full on far-right "if you let those immigrants in they'll take over" rhetoric.

EDIT: I'd also like to point out, that in fact this notion of a people coming in and trying to "take over" ironically given the context here has a long-standing history as an anti-semitic trope when used against Jewish people. It's no less of a racist trope when employed against other groups, though.

Only one party is currently illegally occupying land they have legal claim to and engaging in the crime of apartheid. Only one party is engaged in fighting against an illegal occupier. That you choose to argue in favour of the apartheid regime engaged in an illegal occupation says enough.

As usual the difference between the US and UK is that the US clown show is over the top and overstated all-signing-all-dancing slapstick, while the UK clown show is the kind of cringe delivered entirely deadpan that you watch through your fingers because it's too embarrassing to watch any other way, and that we will nervously laugh at the next day while wondering just how badly we'll feel the consequences.

But they both do the job of totally fucking everyone but their donors over.

That's an interesting one I'd missed. Thanks :)

It might just tempt me to ditch bspwm, or at least experiment. I use little enough of bspwm capabilities, so it might be feasible. I have also lightly toyed with the idea of writing my own, as since I don't use menu bars etc. even on my floating screen (the "menu bars" in my desktop manager are just client rendered titles) I really need very few capabilities. Basically pretty much just a placement function similar-ish to bspwm, and the ability to move and resize and float windows.

On the other hand, a truly minimalist WM is <100 lines, so I might consider writing one from scratch too (I'd need to update the Ruby X11 binding to handle StructureNotify events and add a few more calls, but that's pretty trivial). Though at this point we're quickly approaching zealotry :) It would be fun, though. Maybe when I'm done replacing the terminal fully...

I'm going to block you now, given that you choose insults as a response to pointing out Israeli war crimes and decades of human rights abuse. Talking of "unhinged", I've also reported your vile personal attack.