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this post was submitted on 09 Jan 2025
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Once trump cuts off all government funding from the blue states as he keeps threatening to do, maybe they could join Canada as provinces. It should be win-win considering the blue states contribute more to the federal govt. than they receive from it; while red states receive more than they contribute. So they would make Canada stronger and Trumpistan weaker. Trump wants to expand US lands to impress his idol putin and be like him, but instead he would lose territory.
The only meaningful argument against secession is that individual states would be weaker against invaders.
Except it didn't work. We were invaded over the internet and lost. What are we protecting ourselves against? Being invaded by a world power that gives its people health care? Losing the democracy we just lost despite never having it to begin with?
The USA is bad for everyone now... Even Americans.
It’s a nice idea, but they should be independent.
California has a larger population (and also GDP, I believe) than Canada.
It makes no sense that Canada would want to more than double its population overnight.
Create a Union. Let Europe help - we're VERY interested in a strong and democratic North American continent, and perhaps we can teach one or two things about democratic resiliency to the so-called "land of the free".
It's interesting to think about. If the blue states, which are not contiguous, seceded and joined together as a nation, they'd be scattered groups of states and easily defeated. But if they formed a union with Canada (the NAU?), then at least the territory of the NAU would be contiguous because most of the blue clumps are adjacent to Canada: the NE states, west coast states, Minnesota, probably Michigan, and then Illinois, which might be isolated depending on how Wisconsin would go. Colorado and New Mexico would still be isolated. Maybe they could defeat Arizona and be linked up with the west coast.
Then there'd be the issue of the US capital being D.C which along with its surroundings is overwhelmingly blue, so it would just have to be taken as part of the NE section, and Trumpistan would have to have its capital elsewhere.
All this theorizing ignores the number one internal problem of the US. It's not state versus state, it's urban versus rural. I'm in one of the reddest states in the nation, but I live in the capital where we have a decent democrat mayor. Most people would even laugh at calling this a city, but the urban/rural cultural divide is huge even here. Leave the "cities" and there are traitor flags everywhere. Ethnic minorities do not do well out in the country.
Of course. I live in a red state myself so I know what you mean about urban vs. rural. But Trump didn't think about that when he withheld federal aid from California for the 2018 wildfires. He had to be told that he had lots of supporters in CA; they even had to show him the voter rolls to prove it to him and only then did he approve the aid. See https://www.politico.com/news/2024/10/03/helene-trump-politics-natural-disaster-00182419
But like I said, it's just interesting to think about how things could go. There would necessarily be a pretty massive population redistribution both into and out of the seceding states. There would likely be a war or at least many battles over territory so many of the states' boundaries would change as well. Then there's all the military bases, missile silos, and other national-level facilities spread among many states to be dealt with.
Right on. It's definitely interesting to talk about. I feel like many people still have this civil war mentality of fuck the South they can have what they voted for. People argue whether my state is in the "south" but our history is secession to join the union. There were not many slaves here, therefore not wealthy slavemasters, therefore many people preferred to side with the North.
I had heard about Trump's revenge money bullshit before but thanks for the link to have it on hard copy.
Population redistribution: Again interesting to talk about, but the reality is most Americans lack the money needed to move. We're stuck with what we got. That's just economic concerns. My wife and I have the money to move, but we can't because we don't want to leave her elderly mother, who will not move, behind. A third concern, for us at least, is pride. Historically our state left the Confederacy. We had labor fights here that put many to shame. Sometimes it was straight up like a war between the workers and the strikebreakers.
We have devolved since due to propaganda, racism, and identity politics. But I do not want my state to fall to the assholes. The left here is armed and nobody will want to fight against an entrenched insurgency in these mountains.
can you imagine, their handlers would be reeling from loss of all these warm water ports
In the rust belt? Or Florida?
If there's a dynasty, it'd probably be at MaraLago, but my bet would be on Texas.
It would be good to have an established federal government. Knowing america, though, we would fuck that up real quick.