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submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 month ago) by Jakylla@sh.itjust.works to c/xkcd@lemmy.world

Title text: The heartfelt tune it plays is CC licensed, and you can get it from my seed on JoinDiaspora.net whenever that project gets going.


Transcript2003:

[Cueball approaches a bearded fellow.]

Cueball: Did you get my essay?
Bearded Fellow: Yeah, it was good! But it was a .doc; You should really use a more open-
Cueball: Give it a rest already. Maybe we just want to live our lives and use software that works, not get wrapped up in your stupid nerd turf wars.
Bearded Fellow: I just want people to care about the infrastructures we're building and who-
Cueball: No, you just want to feel smugly superior. You have no sense of perspective and are probably autistic.

2010:

Cueball: Oh my God! We handed control of our social world to Facebook and they're DOING EVIL STUFF!
Bearded Fellow: Do you see this?

[Inset, the bearded fellow rubs his index and middle fingers against his thumb.]

Bearded Fellow: It's the world's tiniest open-source violin.


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Hot take but PDFs became the primary form of document transfer because Microsoft made .doc, docx, docm, rtf, doc 2003-2020...

All those "It won't open" just forced everyone to say "Fuck it send me the PDF"

[-] Mic_Check_One_Two@reddthat.com 61 points 1 year ago

Pretty much. PDF was specifically designed to retain the same look across any device. The goal was that if you designed a document to look a certain way, that opening it on another device wouldn’t fuck your entire design. That’s also why editing PDFs is so damned frustrating, because they’re designed to not change. It largely started as a frustration with the “move an image 3 pixels to the left, and now all your text is in the wrong place” issue. But the EEE strategy by Microsoft directly contributed to pdf becoming the de facto way to share documents.

[-] Darkmuch@lemmy.world 27 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

My Dad got frustrated with docs as people saw that as an invitation to edit the document, or cut and paste stuff he would write. So he switched to using PDF whenever other people got involved.

[-] Mic_Check_One_Two@reddthat.com 24 points 1 year ago

Yeah, that’s ironically what Microsoft has been moving towards. Collaborative editing is incredible when used properly. But that also means anyone with edit access can mess up your carefully crafted document. Luckily, things like Comments are becoming more commonplace, so people can suggest edits without actually being able to commit them.

It doesn’t solve the copy/pasting issue, but you can copy/paste from PDFs these days anyways. Realistically, even saving it as an image won’t solve that, since most devices can recognize text in images now.

[-] overzeetop@lemmy.world 42 points 1 year ago

Well, that and every time you touch a DOC/DOCX file it reformats itself to your local settings, fucking up the entire layout. PDF is a terrible, inefficient, poorly (or at least variably) implemented format which was proprietary for two decades but is now about the best option we have for a document to look the same at the recipient end as the sender and still include text, vector, bitmapped, semi-interactive, and certifiable/traceable contents.

[-] greenskye@lemm.ee 29 points 1 year ago

I really, really hate that so many people still try to share ebooks as PDFs. Why that was ever a thing makes no sense to me. Yes, I absolutely wish to read a 500 page novel on portrait letter size pages with tiny font that completely ignores my screen size.

[-] oatscoop@midwest.social 8 points 1 year ago

I've given up on trying to find certain books in sane formats. Thankfully Calibre is really good at converting PDFs to actual ebook formats.

There's a bit of a learning curve, and sometimes I have to do a little semi-automated cleanup -- but it works.

[-] greenskye@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago

Really? I must have had a particularly troublesome PDF. It was almost like running it through OCR, generating hundreds of weird typos and formatting errors when I tried to convert with calibre.

[-] oatscoop@midwest.social 3 points 1 year ago

The OCR struggles with some PDFs for whatever reasons: font, formatting, etc.

There are 3rd party PDF OCR websites/programs that work better. If I'm having issues I run it through one of those first.

[-] greenskye@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

Any suggestions? Even the good ones had error rates that might not matter for a couple of pages, but when scaled to a 500 page book, even a 1% error rate results in an annoying level of typos.

[-] oatscoop@midwest.social 1 points 1 year ago

I use gImageReader + Tesseract, but that probably doesn't meet your criteria. Unfortunately OCR is very rarely perfect unless the input is perfectly clear and with a "OCR friendly" font/formatting. There are "AI powered" OCR out there, but I can't speak to how well they work and I don't know of any free ones.

[-] FrullaPapaya@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

What are more efficiente and better implemented formats for documents sharing?

[-] MonkderZweite@feddit.ch 3 points 1 year ago

Djvu, but it's toolset is proprietary.

[-] MajorHavoc@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Markdown is gaining traction. There's lots of tools that will edit and display Markdown consistently, and without a dedicated tool, it's just a very readable text file.

And, most importantly for today, it's easy to generate a PDF file from, haha.

[-] MonkderZweite@feddit.ch -5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I don't get why it always must look the same. If i look at Markdown or Asciidoc/tor, Restext, you get content and formatting. Pack it in a tar.gz and create a directory structure for pages and media, etc. and it would imho suffice. And i would gladly see document X in my prefered font size and family instead of creators favorite.

I mean, i get it for typesetting etc. But not for common use.

[-] Zron@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

Yes, let’s allow the end user to apply their custom font to their tax documents and employee contracts

[-] MonkderZweite@feddit.ch -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

What i say is, why save something like font family in the document.

What are you all so stiff on legal documents? Depends maybe on your juristiction, but my (swiss) employee contract was e-mailed to me as a scan. I put a scan of my sign in and sent it back, informed my employee and that was fine. Sure, a certificate to sign would be more practical, but we are not there yet.

[-] Longpork_afficianado@lemmy.nz -2 points 1 year ago

Change it back if you don't like it? If everyone gets to set the fonts locally then everyone gets to use their favourite.

[-] TAG@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Markdown is a bit limited (the spec doesn't cover common extensions like tables of contents, internal links, and explicit page breaks). AsciiDoc is better on that issue.

The only use case I have for being picky about the formatting/layout of a document is my resume. Some people have a threshold for how long a resume is allowed to be (for example 1 additional page per 10 years of experience). Also, I have all of the dates right justified (for easy skimming) but still on the same line as the job title (to save space on the page).

[-] geekworking@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

Yes and No.

They were really designed to show the same output on the screen and printer.

Even if you are using the same word processor software and file format, a document can look vastly different when you send it to someone else who doesn't have the same screen resolution or the same fonts installed.

PDF started as just a print preview for the postscript printer language. They should have just stopped there instead of trying to make it do all sorts of other shit that can open security holes.

The constant parade of file formats drove popularity, but it was really about being the only popular format to look the same.

[-] MonkderZweite@feddit.ch 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Instead of using .odt.

Maybe with more advertising? Most people don't know about the Open Document Format and that it's standardization sent MS to panicky rework their .doc & co. to pseudo-open OOXML (.docx etc.).

[-] adriaan@sh.itjust.works 10 points 1 year ago

When you save an odt from Word and open it in OpenOffice, the formatting is usually all fucked. At least that used to be the case. A pdf comes out right on the other side.

[-] okamiueru@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago

It's intentionally fucked by MS. It doesn't matter that this non-MS software actually follows consistent standards. As long as its only the minority, they get away with it looking like it's the others not being consistent.

MS has a history of doing it. It's in the company ethos of "embrace, extend and extinguish". Imagine something as simple as storing the contents of a document being at the behest of a private company. Humanity is all the worse for it.

[-] bufordt@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago

DOS isn't done until Lotus won't run.

[-] LogarithmicCamel@feddit.uk 3 points 1 year ago

Except for my local printing shop, which couldn't print my PDF poster for some reason so now they are asking for a PPT. WTF!

[-] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

There's someone at your local print shop unqualified to be doing their job.

this post was submitted on 16 Aug 2023
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