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How some of the post-federation Ukraine threads feel like
(lemmygrad.ml)
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this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2023
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chapotraphouse
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I don't think the Ukrainian state as it is is worth supporting. It's not this bastion of democracy and freedom the western media pretends it is, it's a shitty corrupt oligarchy same as Russia.
I don't care about Russia getting weaker at all tbh. I'd much rather see the west greatly weakened than Russia as they are the bigger threat to world peace and prosperity.
The reason I'm against the west helping Ukraine is they're clearly not helping them win the war, just prolong it. I'd much rather the war end right now with Russia (probably) getting the bigger piece of the cake as it stops the meat grinder on both sides. It's not because I give a shit about Russia winning, it's about stopping the killing. I don't believe people living in the war-torn area would be much better off under Russia or Ukraine as both states suck shit anyway, so stopping the killing is the best they're gonna get for the time being.
I agree with most of this but I'm not sure how you can seriously claim that you don't think that the people of the Donbass will be better off under Russia when the Ukrainian state have been shelling and murdering them since 2014. The bar for Russia here is so goddamn low.
Ukraine has been shelling them because they (Ukraine) were ignoring the ceasefire, they (Ukraine) can't ignore an actual peace treaty without serious consequences, they would just restart the war at that point and then we're back to square one.
Sure, I'm just saying they wouldn't really go that much above the bar.
Just going by generally used economic indicators, at least materially they will. Ukraine was the poorest country in Europe in 2021. Even poorer than Belarus or Moldova. And that was before the war.
You are ignorant. The people of Crimea, the DPR, and LPR all have attested to the influx of state investment in infrastructure and public services. They contrast this with the lack of such under ukraine.
The bar is noticeably higher according to the people affected.
Got any sources on that that aren't directly Russia-aligned? Or if they are how backed up by data are they?
Just google "Crimea bridge", there you have a data-backed example.