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How some of the post-federation Ukraine threads feel like
(lemmygrad.ml)
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this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2023
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chapotraphouse
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I hope I don't get castrated for this by everyone here but I'm genuinely curious so I'm going to ask. For coxtext, I'm a dirty commie retard hippie dick suckin left wing lib (not a meme, I am literally a Liberal Democrat). Now that that's out of the way, I'd like to ask someone who disagrees with me why they think that supporting Ukraine is a bad move? The way I see it, the longer this war goes on, the weaker Russia gets. Sure it's costing the US (and other countries) a lot of money and resources but we are essentially weakining a not-so-friendly country of ours without having to send our own troops to fight it. Why is this a bad thing? Should I not care if Russia gets more powerful than it already is? Am I retarded?
We support the concept of multipolarity. We believe that that the US/NATO being the sole, dominant world hegemon is a bad thing. One big reason why we think that is because developing countries have suffered greatly under the neocolonialist policies of the World Bank and IMF, but they've been forced to accept whatever deal they're offered in order to have the market access needed to survive. In a multipolar world, these countries would have more options, and would have more ability to play major powers against each other.
We also oppose capitalism. Both the US and Russia are capitalist countries, so we oppose both of them, but we consider the US to be the higher priority, because it is more powerful. We do not believe that the interests advanced by the US government and bourgeoisie are consistent with the interests of the American people.
The lives of Americans are not worth more than the lives of Ukrainians, or Russians for that matter. We want a swift end to the war, because, uhh, we value human life. Ukraine has been completely unwilling to negotiate or consider any territorial concessions, but realistically that's likely to happen whether we keep throwing people into a meat grinder for the next 20 years or not.
So, you believe that Ukraine should just give up and allow Russia to take whatever they want?
Also, forgive me because I think I'm misunderstanding the theme of this instance. Isn't this an instance for right-wing, conservative, Republican discussions, or is it something else?
Yes 😎 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_faction_(Spanish_Civil_War)
The situation is more complex than you'll get from the media. Separatists in Donbas, an area with cultural ties to Russia, rose up after the old government was overthrown and the new government banned political parties and shut them out of the political process, and Ukraine signed a ceasefire which it then broke by shelling civilian targets. Even if Russia withdrew, it's not clear that the fighting would cease.
In any case, Ukraine has been refusing to consider any concessions at all, which is just unrealistic at this point. They'll either cede territory now or they'll cede it in 5 years with a lot more dead bodies.
Lol no we're like actual communists here
Yeah. Ukraine should give up and respect the autonomy of the Russian speaking Ukrainians who don't want to be wiped out by Galacian Nazis.
If you were a Ukrainian person Russia taking over your area would likely change things not at all. Likely it would improve your wages and working conditions. Should they be willing to get turned into soup to defend one their landlords houses? Obviously not. There in no honor in victory for them there.
Russia has made it very clear since the beginning that they only had three conditions: denazification, Ukraine maintains its neutrality by not joining NATO, and the recognition of the sovereignty of the Donbass republics.
The refusal to accept these terms, which to be fair, was instigated and likely strongarmed by the West i.e. Boris Johnson, and the decision to follow NATO’s strategy of “fighting to the last Ukrainian” have only led to further unnecessary deaths and casualties, not to mention a completely ruined economy that will likely never recover for decades to come.