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Europe Preps Huge Defense Package in Boost to Ukraine: 'Never Been Seen' (www.newsweek.com)

submitted 5 days ago by NightOwl@lemmy.ca to c/worldnews@lemmy.ml

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[-] Foni@lemm.ee 8 points 5 days ago

That is the only way, to tell Ukraine that it still has real allies, that as much as the USA withdraws, we will put in. Any other option is to be a whore and pay for the night.

[+] Pherenike@lemmy.ml -34 points 5 days ago

I'm sorry, but it's obvious Zelenskyy does not give a flying fuck about Ukraine. All he cares about is planting those sweet NATO bases right at Russia's door, just like they agreed decades ago not to do. He is using his country as a killing field for the US to gain advantage over Russia. Not that Russia is an innocent lamb obviously either. Just... please read about the origins of this conflict and do not for a second buy into the 'Zelenskyy champion of anti-imperialism and democracy' rhetoric the EU loves to use. This is a lot more complex.

[-] Foni@lemm.ee -4 points 4 days ago

Of course, Zelenskyy is an evil ruler who hates his people, and that justifies a violation of his sovereignty and the annexation of their territories, because ... well because ... I don't know something that blames Brussels bureaucrats, neither is that you strive a lot in the narrative

[+] Pherenike@lemmy.ml -7 points 4 days ago

Yes, Zelenskyy is a shell of a human being, and so are Trump and Putin. Brussels' bureaucrats do not play any significant role in this conflict, and neither does he. Just look at who just spoke a few days ago to negotiate peace in Ukraine. Was Zelensky there? Nope. That should tell you who matters and who doesn't.

This is also quite telling:

https://www.eurasiantimes.com/trumps-plan-to-extract-500-billion-from-ukraine/?amp

[-] Foni@lemm.ee 0 points 4 days ago

Of course, sure, Zelenskyy, Trump, and Putin are exactly the same. My goodness, how could this kind of cheap, third-rate propaganda be influencing some people so much?

[-] Pherenike@lemmy.ml 4 points 3 days ago

And what propaganda would that be? I just said I didn't like any of them, so who has brainwashed me? China? 😧 Do you even know what the definition of propaganda is? Seriously...

[-] Foni@lemm.ee -2 points 3 days ago

Oh, come on. Fine, I'll put it in writing if you need it.
The first step in the oldest playbook in the business says: if the leader you want to defend (or the company, or the country, it doesn’t matter) does something so obviously wrong that it’s indefensible, make the rival look the same. It doesn’t matter how, it doesn’t matter how much, just muddy the playing field.

Putting Putin and Zelenskyy on the same level is exactly that, and it’s damn transparent to anyone with half a functioning brain.

[-] Pherenike@lemmy.ml 5 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Ah, right. So if I don't like Zelenskyy and Trump, it MUST be because I like Putin. No other option possible. Such genious, complex geostrategical thinking!

If I point out what is criticizable about Zelenskyy, it must be because I want to justify what Putin has done. That indeed does sound like propaganda, come to think of it.

There is more in the world than black and white, love. And certainly in international politics. You're the one spouting exactly the same heroic nonsense as the EU. I'm trying to tell you there is more to this conflict than that infantile "good guys" and "bad guys" viewpoint.

But whatever, suit yourself.

[-] Foni@lemm.ee -3 points 3 days ago

Zelenskyy is a shell of a human being, and so are Trump and Putin

You're not criticizing things about Zelenskyy that are worth criticizing; you're equating him to Putin, putting the aggressor and the victim on the same level, and you do it with the obvious intention to minimize Putin's faults. You're not adding nuance to a leader or contextualizing things; you're simply implying that the one who has invaded and violated a country's sovereignty is the same as the one defending against it.

I'm not going to respond to you again because you're making a fool of yourself if you think this is going anywhere. But if you wanted to have a serious conversation about what Ukraine could or couldn't have done differently (Ukraine, not Zelenskyy, who has been in office since 2019, when Russia already had everything ready, not since 2014), you'd have to start by understanding that Russia is the aggressor, that Putin is an imperialist, and that nothing others do will change that.