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Communism in theory vs in practice
(lemmy.ml)
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this post was submitted on 15 Mar 2025
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The USSR didn't "do repression and violence to speed up Communism," they had a successful revolution and established Socialism. By all accounts it was quite successful overall, but we can learn from where they erred and adapt for the future.
The only ones who believe the Soviet Union wasn't Socialist are generally Western Trots or liberals/Anarchists who already don't want the form of society Marxists want, which is a government that publicly owns its large and key industries and gradually folds in the new firms that grow to that level until the entire economy is publicly owned.
Have you never heard of bolševiks and menševiks? What you're explaining is what menševiks wanted, but what happened was what bolševiks aimed for.
And that was inhumane horror.
No, the Mensheviks had a poor understanding of Historical Materialism and didn't think the Peasantry could truly be allied to the Proletariat. What I am describing is what the Bolsheviks did. To a better extent the PRC also fulfills this.
I don't think reeducation camps should be considered "concentration camps," which brings to mind the mass killings of the Holocaust, but regardless the reeducation program is pretty much complete.
As far as can be considered a successful country, the PRC absolutely fits that. Conditions for the people are rapidly improving, the economy when adjusted for purchasing power parity is the largest in the world, it's a world leader in renewable energy, and is overtaking the rest of the world in key metrics.
A camp where people are sent because of their ethnic background and where a large part of inmates die is a concentration camp, absolutely. Especially if human experiments are done on the inmates and torture is common.
I would not want my conditions to improve through slavery and torture of others. There is a big difference between you and me regarding that.
See, I don't think there's evidence of that occuring, though. I don't want my conditions to improve through slavery and torture of others either, the difference really seems to be your insistence on trusting unverified claims from the christian Nationalist Adrian Zenz, who believes he was sent by God to stop China, which he believes is the antichrist.
There are reeducation camps, but there's no evidence of systemic torture, killings, or experiments. Meanwhile Palestinians are being genocided without question, with mountains of evidence.
There is plenty of evidence that China is exterminating millions of Uyghurs right now. It’s indisputable that it’s happening. If you need proof, I am ready to give you as many sources as you can handle. All that you have to do is ask.
But first, I’m going to need you to solve this CAPTCHA to make sure that you are human:
Noooooo you got me 🫠
The Palestinian genocide takes place in Palestine, not in China. You are mistaken regarding that.
Who the hell is Zenz? First time I hear the name, and does not seem like a person I should bother to learn something from.
I never said the genocide of Palestinians was in China, I said the Palestinian genocide has mountains of evidence while what you describe comes from Zenz.
Zenz is the sole source of claims of mass killings and torture of Uyghurs, along with claims of forced sterilization. If you aren't even aware of your own sources, why are you arguing against someone who has done some degree of research into the subject?
I recommend reading the UN report, found here. It's a good place to start, I also recommend reading China's response. There's a lot that can be discussed, but it's clear that you care more about taking advantage of the subject to push a political agenda, like the Israelis who claimed Hamas beheaded babies, or the Kuwaiti claims of Iraqi soldiers taking babies from their incubators and leaving them on the floor. Read The Xinjiang Atrocity Propaganda Blitz.
No investigation, no right to speak.
My sources are newspaper articles whose sources are not the guy you're talking about.
Because the Palestinian and Bosnian genocides are not in China, they don't prove anything about China. At best they are whataboutism.
Check the newspapers, Zenz will be listed. Find some sources, they all point to Zenz for claims of genocide.
As for Palestine, it isn't a whataboutism. There's overwhelming evidence of Palestinian genocide, and there just isn't for the Uyghur people.
Start with the UN report, read China's response.
The reports were made by reporters that were named and whose names weren't what you refer to.
Unless Palestine is in China, what happens or does not happen gives no privileges for China. What you're doing is indeed whataboutism.
Show your sources. Claims of genocidal nature all route back to Zenz, claims of reeducation programs are abundant and have many sources.
And no, whataboutism would be saying that "China may be doing genocide, but the US and Israel are doing worse genocide in Palestine." That's not my point, my point is that the Palestinian genocide has mountains of evidence, yet the Uyghur reeducation program's "genocidal nature" only has Zenz, paid for by the BBC specifically to manufacture evidence to be used against China for geopolitical gain.
Least smug shitlib