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The British talking about Russia and Ukraine
(lemmy.ml)
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this post was submitted on 28 Mar 2025
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LMFAO this is what happens when you get "education" under a western regime. The racist US and imperial Britain were completely and utterly irrelevant to defeating Hitler. In fact, what they actually accomplished was to ensure that the horrors of capitalism would continue to this day. With the US, it would have been USSR that liberated all of Europe from both the nazis and capitalist oppression.
Don't take my word for it though. Here's what a book produced by US military has to say on the subject.
Because the US and UK did nothing else during the war except lend-lease of course. The bombing of German industry, blockades of their supply lines, the Africa-campaigns, extensive intelligence operations, no all of that definitely did nothing and didn't contribute to the war effort at all.
It's likely the Allies would have won the war without the US involved, though it's estimated it would have taken much longer. Without UK involvement, it's more probable that the Germans could have achieved a victory, though perhaps not a total capitulation of the Soviets. Without a western front to guard as heavily, they would probably have taken Moscow by the end of 41 (irl they were 20 miles out). Japan would also have a much freeer reign in the pacific theatre.
LOL this guy again
It's obvious to anyone who can do basic math that what the US and UK did was a pinprick to German army and industry. You simply have to look at the numbers of troops lost and it becomes very clear who was fighting this war. After many decades of propaganda westerners convinced themselves they were relevant in it.
https://www.les-crises.fr/the-successful-70-year-campaign-to-convince-people-the-usa-and-not-the-ussr-beat-hitler/
The Axis combined conscripted approximately 40 million men, whereas the Soviet Union conscripted approximately 34.5 million men. Without the Allies they would not have won just looking at the numbers.
The US conscripted 16 million, the British Commonwealth approximately 11 million. That's a combined 27 million, which isn't exactly insignificant compared to the USSRs 34.5 million (see https://www.statista.com/statistics/1342260/wwii-mobilization-by-country/).
The Soviets were forced to mobilize that many as they were essentially fighting an existential war at that time. They also suffered the brunt of the casualties, in no small part due to a lack of equipment.
Without the Allies, the USSR would have likely lost. Even Stalin knew and said as much. The US entry shortened the war but they certainly didn't "win the war for the rest of the Allies" or anything. But to minimize the contribution as a "pinprick" is ridiculous and not supported by historians east nor west.
Clearly the US army disagrees with you, but what do they know.
The US army says that lend-lease and the invasion of Europe shortened the war. It does not say that the Soviets would have won without the Allies being in the war. Even your source says that the lend-lease and the invasion, even if not the deciding factor, were "a great help".
Maybe read your sources a little better?
The source very clearly states that western effort shortened the war, but did not fundamentally change the dynamic of the war. Maybe work on your own reading comprehension?
No, it specifically talks about US lend-lease and the invasion of Europe. It's not talking about the entire western contribution to the war.
ok sure
This. The Russians did all the work and the US and UK come and take the credit
How many people a month were dying because of the Nazis?
I love how you ignore those lives as meaningless.
Then we might as well ask how many people a months has US led world order killed since WW2 ended.
You're the one saying we shouldn't take any actions unless they are morally blameless.
I'll be the first to say the US should end its wars. What I don't understand how not using the Dems to get rid of Trump improves the situation.
Nah that's not what I was saying at all. It's just a hamfisted straw man you're using. What I was actually saying is that not only would've USSR defeated the nazis on their own, what the west accomplished was a net negative for the world. Had US not gotten itself involved, then Europe would've almost certainly have become communist. There wouldn't have been wars in Vietnam and Korea, Afghanistan, and many other horrors the empire continues to enact, and we wouldn't be living in capitalist hell in the west today.
Sorry. I thought we were dealing with getting stuff done now.
I didn't realize you wanted to talk about alternate history.
My mistake.
No, we are not dealing with alternative history. We are dealing with the history of what the west proceeded to do after the war ended. If you're going to talk about how many people died then you have to include all the people that the west brutally massacred during the Cold War and continues to massacre today. Because your claim is that the world order that arose out of US participating in the war was a net positive. Let me know if you need me to use smaller words to help you understand this.
That's not relevant to getting things done now.
The actual history is that Stalin wanted help form the US and took it. Anything else is alternate history.
If you want to talk about getting power away from Trump, I'm interested. Otherwise, have a nice night.
Once again, you made a claim that the less people died because the US participated in the war. And I simply pointed out that the world order that formed from that resulted in far greater human suffering. Nobody is talking about any alternative histories here. We are talking about the actual history of western depravities that followed in the wake of WW2. Let me know if that's still unclear to you.
What the west is currently doing in the world today is actually very much relevant to getting things done now.
Let me put it this way. Why don't you lay out your detailed plan to change things. An actual plan including names of candidates who could win elections in America in 2026.
Because if you don't have something like that, all your doing is playing imaginary games.
My actual plan is to sit back and to watch your country tear itself apart so that the rest of the world can finally breathe. If Americans actually wanted to change things for the better they'd be joining orgs like PSL and building a mass worker movement the way people of Bolivia did with MAS. Instead, you're still bleating about elections within your oligarch owned system.
That ignores the fact that America has the biggest military on the planet. Any sing aircraft carrier or nuclear submarine could devastate the planet.
If you think that America will fade away quietly you've been ignoring everything that's happened in history.
You've yet to say anything relevant, just spewed a lot of alternate history fantasies.
Go out and touch the grass, please
The USSR also had a massive military that could go head to head with the US. The military isn't going to do shit for you when your country turns on itself. The US is deeply polarized politically at this point, and it's only a matter of time before there's civil unrest. The Americans have a serious protagonist syndrome where they think that things that happened to every other empire will not happen to them.
You’ve yet to say anything relevant, just spewed a lot of nonsense without any substance.
Go out and touch the grass, please
You are so hilarious!
The USSR? You mean the country that fell apart after a series of missteps that made it the laughing stock of the world?
I suppose I should read the rest of what you wrote, but once I saw you referring to the land imploded itself I couldn't go on. Maybe I'll save it for when I need a good laugh.
🤡
Thanks. I was kinda wondering what you looked like.
All you yanks know how to do is project. Good luck living in your fascist shithole. 🤣
So, how many Americans do you communicate with? Dozens? Hundreds? Thousands? Every day? Every couple of hours? Every few minutes?
It would be tragic if it weren't so funny.
I don't need to communicate with you chuds every day to see what you do collectively. It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic. Your country is a blight upon the human race.
Check your dictionary. What you are doing right now is 'communicating.'
I expect you to respond, because you want to keep up the 'communication.'
I see the bot has a context limit problem 🤣
Says the guy who has sent five messages this morning.
Denial and projection.
thanks for further confirming that parsing short sentences is beyond your cognitive capacity
Is that six or seven messages you’ve sent today, while still not being able to understand the sentence you're replying to?
What I actually said was that I don't need to communicate with you clown much to know what you do collectively. I said absolutely nothing regarding how much I communicate with y'all.
I knew the education in Yankeestand was bad, but wow this is embarrassing beyond belief. Reading comprehension below grade school level on display here.
You're the one saying we should not do anything unless it is morally blameless.
I know the US war on terror is immoral. What I don't understand is why you think letting things get worse is a good idea.
cough non agression pact cough
Annnd which one of these is viewed as "good"?
None of them. But you seem kinda hellbent on specialising the one that explicitly carved up several countries that were about to be invaded a literal week before the invasions started.
None of them are viewed as much of anything because nobody ever brings them up. Yet if someone has the gall to claim that the Soviets fought (not even beat) the Nazis, fuckers like you come in to harp on about muh Muhluhtov-Ribbenslop pact.