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Rage For The Machine
(lemmy.ml)
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this post was submitted on 30 Apr 2025
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The White Army was specific to Russia, not all Socialist states like China, Cuba, Vietnam, etc. Don't really know what you're getting at, here.
Workers were always consumers. That's part of the problem with Capitalism, higher wages give more room for increased commodity circulation, but Capitalists don't want to pay their own workers higher wages. Further, industry is still the backbone of production worldwide, the Imperialist states in the West just export the hardest jobs to the Global South so they can have cheap goods without the harsh labor.
As Capitalism decays, proletarianization increases even in the Imperialist countries, and thus reception to Socialism increases.
There is no "mental problem that cannot be solved," this is quite literally inventing a problem that exists purely in your head. Idealism to a T.
Broism is a reaction to proletarianization, combined with patriarchial culture. It ignores analysis and goes for vibes-based solutions, which is why all bro-culture is incoherent and contradictory.
If I remember correctly, Mao was supported by Stalin. I assume something similar for any other revolution. Outside support is needed.
Look at Syria. Assad was in control and it took massive outside support to let the opposition win. Who is going to support a socialist revolution today?
Not like today, where brains are addicted to TikTok and shopping. Workers could work less but they shop more. That's not considered in the original theory.
Will it reach critical mass?
Exactly. Consumers are trapped there. The left cannot handle this because it absolutely contradicts their mindset. This alone will prevent any further progress towards socialism.
Correct. 'Ignoring the material ones' means ignoring analysis while vibe-based solution corresponds with 'mental issues'. My point is that Broism looks at aspects of the current situation to which the left analysis is blind. Calling it a reaction already frames it as not worth considering.
The left analysis in itself is correct. That doesn't change anything if the consumers are not listening. Knowing the truth is a mental trap if it leads to ineffective action.
The White Army was a Tsarist Army. The Red Army was the Soviet Army. And you are mistaken, while there were times that the Soviets or Chinese Communists helped others, it was usually after revolution. I think you need to look more into your history.
I really don't think you know what you're talking about if you think advertising isn't considered in Marxist theory. Workers are consumers, they get their means to live through being paid wages. Further, theory isn't static, it adapts and changes while the core remains the same.
I'd say it's increasingly likely that Imperialism finally ends, yes. Whether that's through revolution or war is a separate matter.
When I say your point on TikTok is Idealist, I mean it in the philosophical way, in opposition to Materialism. Idealism is wrong, it's the concept of thoughts and ideas being the primary mover, not material reality. The reason I say yours is idealist is because you've invented a problem that doesn't exist, tik tok does not change the material base, being workers who spend their wages on goods.
There are people trying to solve the issue with "broism" without listening to the analysis of the "bros" beyond data points. Being connected to a problem doesn't mean you know how to solve it. The Left doesn't lack an answer to it, the left already has answers. The answers of the "bros" like government supplied girlfriends are not worth considering.
So in the end, you say the Leftists are correct, and say the problem is if people don't listen to that? I mean, kinda, but that screams that you haven't ever engaged with Leftist theory. Knowing leftist theory leads to action, not inaction.
Yes, I mean the Tsarist army. But you are right, my knowledge of history is limited.
That's not what I mean with consumers. Consumers spend their money against their interest, to fulfill emotional needs that were highlighted by advertising. I don't think that I have mentioned advertising before, but I actually think that this type of advertising won't happen in a socialist country.
I think that's also how I understood it.
My point is that the mindset of people have changed and thoughts have become the primary movers.
Workers are not workers who rationally spend their money on products that have the most benefit to them. Those people are now consumers. They spend their money on stuff that is supposed to make them happy which induces the need to accept the current system. A revolution becomes a threat.
But the motivations are. What do those people want and why do they prefer it over the offer from the left.
Action means nothing if it doesn't reach people. As I said, truth becomes a trap if it leads to ineffective action.
You're still misunderstanding idealism vs materialism. Your analysis is idealist, and that clouds your judgement of issues surrounding consumerism. Consumerism, as you describe it, still existed in Marx's time, and the existence of it does not conflict with Marxism. Liberalism in general is idealist, but that doesn't make it correct. Thoughts aren't the primary movers, consumerism is driven by a necessity for Capitalists to sell more commodities. It isn't the choice of individuals, but the underlying Capitalist system.
You still have not made any point regarding workers and consumers. They are the same. They have always been the same. Revolution is further not a threat for them.
Leftists do analyze the motivations of broism, you continue to invent problems that do not exist.
Finally, Leftists do reach people, with action. It isn't a "trap."
You don't really have any real points, you are dead-set on your misinterpretations of left vs right and as a consequence don't actually understand Leftist critique or analysis, and it seems deliberate.
It's definitely not a deliberate misunderstanding.
Yes. By the same logic, Capitalists need consumers to stay calm and to not change the system.
How can the Capitalist system be changed if people don't act on individual choices?
They reach some. Do they reach enough?
I wasn't suggesting it was deliberate, my point is more that if you want to discuss a subject, you ought to familiarize yourself with it prior to forming an opinion.
Capitalists do need workers to not revolt, yes. Leftists acknowledge this, there are various methods Capitalists employ, like bribery through sharing the spoils of Imperialism with the Working Class. That doesn't mean right-wingers have valid points.
As for if enough people are reached, yes, increasingly as time goes on. I'm not sure what your point here is.
My point is that the Capitalists manage the rate at which workers learn about the left point of view so that the chance of them reaching a ctitical mass for change is very low.
Capitalists use control of media, yes. That doesn't mean accepting right-wing analysis is correct, and that doesn't mean Leftist ideas aren't spreading.