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submitted 4 days ago by jackmaoist@hexbear.net to c/chapotraphouse@hexbear.net

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Man is just fucking with Euro brains with every statement.

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[-] CrawlMarks@hexbear.net 22 points 4 days ago

Russia is capitlaist. We are capitlaist. There is no reason to not do business together. All the anti Russian stuff is political theater for the masses and left over cold war propaganda

[-] Sam@hexbear.net 13 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Russia is capitlaist. We are capitlaist. There is no reason to not do business together.

Russia is, and always will be, America's enemy. They can provide all the resources and services America can to the rest of Europe at much cheaper and efficient rates. This is why even after the USSR collapsed instead of absorbing them into NATO they continued to be seen as the enemy, its why Nordstream was blown up and its why the proxy war in Ukraine is happening right now. America has to keep the rest of Europe separated from Russia whether they are capitalists or not.

This will also, I believe, potentially blowback on the US. Unlike the rest of the Eastern bloc they could not simply pour in and wipe the last 80 years of history away. Russia today still holds the muscle memory of the practicalities of a communist state and when Putin goes there will be the possibility for a return to it. See my below comment for clarification.

[-] vovchik_ilich@hexbear.net 10 points 4 days ago

Russia today still holds the muscle memory of the communist state and when Putin goes there will be the possibility for a return to it

Absolutely fucking not. The material conditions in Russia couldn't be further from socialist revolution

[-] Sam@hexbear.net 3 points 4 days ago

I am merely stating that the historical knowledge of the practicalities remain and that the sort of fanatical anti-communism that infested the rest of Eastern Europe when NATO swept in has not taken strong roots. The truth is most of our theory and all of our historical analysis is based on societies that have always been capitalist before being overthrown by a revolution. We dont have any sort of precedent for a former socialist society that is now capitalist returning to socialism.

I don't have any answers. All I am saying is that the reason that a peaceful revolution is impossible in most societies is because the forces of capital would not allow it. But in Russia the unbroken chain of capital that exists in most countries does not exist, their forced opposition to capital forces from the west have isolated and weakened them. Putin brought them back from the brink, and he will remain in power for as long as he wishes. But once he is gone then who knows. Probably Nothing Happens(TM), but maybe something does.

[-] CrawlMarks@hexbear.net 7 points 4 days ago

I agree with you that we mess with Russia for no sensible reason and that does gutted American hegemony. It isn't because of a specter haunting Russia though. It is all our own brainworms

[-] lorty@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 4 days ago

Except they don't want a business partner. They want a balkanized and weak countries to exploit.

[-] CrawlMarks@hexbear.net 5 points 4 days ago

This is true however. We have the case of Japan that proces a business partner is infact better for capitalism. So it is what they ought to have done

[-] AmarkuntheGatherer@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 4 days ago

I'm going to chime in because I'm confident I know how they meant and I don't want to see this discussion get bogged down in "but he didn't literally boil babies" levels of discourse.

As much as all of us around here they're around the word balkanise, it's clear that the imperial hegemon doesn't need its former adversaries divided into chunks, merely subservient. Japan is subservient, they accepted a deal that would make their exports much less competitive, even though they didn't have a plan to deal with its ramifications. They accept usian bases in their land, because the constant spill of American rapists and the possibility of an outright occupation are a small price to pay if one of happy as a vassal anyway.

Yeltsin was the same. The drunk fuck didn't give a toss how much he pissed away the wealth of Russia, or how her people suffered. Unfortunately for the sрooks that got him elected, his successor and his base of support wanted an equal relationship with the west. Even as I say that, I believe (pure conjecture, have no source) they'd have accepted a position like Germany if it came without the ritual humiliation Germans get their kicks from. At any rate, if they wouldn't just be subjects, they'd be subjected, or at least the hegemon would try.

Anyway I didn't write any of this with the belief you didn't know, just to have some clarity.