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this post was submitted on 12 Jun 2025
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Then where are all the people complaining they can't have kids even though they want them? People aren't having kids because they don't want them.
Right, they're not, but the odds of starving are lower when there are less mouths to feed. I read that pre-agriculture tribes limited their reproduction to live within their means.
Jesus fucking Christ, go read the research into the issue of rising infertility rates and see where they are getting their data from. That's where the people are. You think scientists just make these numbers up? Just because you don't constantly hear about it in the news means it doesn't happen? Are you dull?
I don't give a fuck what pre-agriculture tribes did. We don't live in a pre-agriculture society. The point is that no authority should have control over the reproductive health of another, that unethically violates the autonomy of the individual and leads to eugenics.
People are not starving due to the rising populations; this is a bullshit, shortsighted framing of the argument that is rhetorically deceptive. They are starving due to the unethical distribution of resources. They aren't starving because they have more mouths to feed, they are starving due to systemic oppression preventing them from accessing readily available resources with which to feed those extra mouths while a small percentage of humanity consumes excessive amounts of those resources while forcing wasteful production practices to chase after imaginary tokens of perceived value.
If we weren't being forced as a society to produce so much excess for these small minded moguls of industry and restructured society to incentivize sustainability over profit generation, we would have more than enough to go around.
First point, I have read a bit and I'm unconvinced. People who want kids are having them, if they weren't, it'd be all over the mainstream news. Childless people would be suing Dupont or something.
Second point, again, I agree, but there is an environmental carrying capacity and we keep degrading the environment.
Your third point is true, but I was referring to the increasingly uncertain climate future. There may come a year where there just isn't enough due to an unlucky series of crop failures.
I can't argue against the fourth point.
Bro you have way too much trust in mainstream news outlets. Things happen all the time that the media is silent on. Just because something is happening does not mean it would be in the mainstream news cycle, in fact more things happen every day that will never be reported on. That doesn't mean they aren't happening. Literally, scientific research proves as fact that there is a rising issue with infertility rates. That number has gone up, and prevailing research points to it being caused, in part, by the buildup of microplastics.
Second point, yes that's true but that is not what was being discussed. Just because that is true does not justify a body of authority to dictate the reproductive choices of individuals. Also, just because those two points are true does not make the tertiary point that "we have reached peak population capacity" true. That claim is entirely false.
Third, also true, but again that wasn't the topic and is only tangentially related to it. That's a separate discussion on climate change and its causes.
I'm curious why you feel so strongly about this, and I'm inclined to agree with you, no authority should decide if and how many children a person can have, but if everyone had eight kids it'd probably be a problem. What would you think if a democracy decided no more than two? How would that sit with you? I believe individuals should have freedom but there should be limits that are collectively agreed on.
Yea no shit, but that's a stupid hypothetical that is most likely not going to ever happen, so it isn't even worth considering.
I'd tell those people to go fuck themselves and if they force my partner to have an abortion against their will just because we went over their arbitrary limit, that I did not agree to, then there's gonna be a fucking fight for our right to have a child if we so wish.
What part of "no one should have authority over the reproductive rights of others" is unclear?
Why are you so abrasive? I'm mostly agreeing with you and you're still a dick, simply dismissing or ignoring my points. Read into carrying capacity, go offline, and have however many children you and your partner want so you won't have time to be online.
I'm dismissing your points because they are irrelevant points when you actually consider them critically.
I'm a dick because I'm tired of entertaining bullshit arguments and rhetoric throughout this thread.
You say you agree that "no authority should decide if and how many children a person can have", then provide a bullshit hypothetical, and then use it as justification for proposing exactly the thing I said I am against with another hypothetical. You absolutely do not agree with me if you think your hypothetical is okay. It absolutely is not and is a direct violation of autonomy when you think about how that decision to limit the number of children someone can give birth to would have to be enforced. Forced population control is literally eugenics in disguise.
And that's after repeatedly denying the science behind microplastics causing an increase in infertility rates from the earlier argumens. I cannot stand science denial. It pisses me off.
If you're still wondering why I'm abrasive, you're never gonna get it.
And, nah, I won't go offline, you can cope.