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submitted 3 weeks ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world

Several service members told advocacy groups they felt like pawns in a political game and assignment was unnecessary

California national guards troops and marines deployed to Los Angeles to help restore order after days of protest against the Trump administration have told friends and family members they are deeply unhappy about the assignment and worry their only meaningful role will be as pawns in a political battle they do not want to join.

Three different advocacy organisations representing military families said they had heard from dozens of affected service members who expressed discomfort about being drawn into a domestic policing operation outside their normal field of operations. The groups said they have heard no countervailing opinions.

“The sentiment across the board right now is that deploying military force against our own communities isn’t the kind of national security we signed up for,” said Sarah Streyder of the Secure Families Initiative, which represents the interests of military spouses, children and veterans.

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[-] Phoenicianpirate@lemm.ee 12 points 3 weeks ago

Their orders are illegal, thus disobeying them is not insubordination or illegal.

[-] Necroscope0@lemm.ee 9 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Not just not subordination following them is specifically illegal and historically "I was following orders" has NEVER been justification or gotten anyone off their charges. You follow illegal orders YOU are a criminal as much as your commanding officer.

[-] kerrigan778@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 3 weeks ago

Unfortunately for the most part with only a few exceptions "I was following orders" has in fact, always worked to get people off scott free for war crimes except in cases where they were committed by a nation that lost the war.

[-] jnod4@lemmy.ca 0 points 3 weeks ago

These orders will be made legal as judges have no more basis in us of a

[-] Dogiedog64@lemmy.world 5 points 3 weeks ago

If that were true, why do they keep getting their asses handed to them in court, and why do they keep complying with those rulings?

[-] Pacattack57@lemmy.world -3 points 3 weeks ago

That’s not how military orders work.

[-] Cracks_InTheWalls@sh.itjust.works 8 points 3 weeks ago

It is 100% how military orders work. Members have an obligation to not carry out unlawful orders. I've yet to hear of any NATO aligned force where this isn't drilled into people's heads from the get-go.

Granted, given the state of the law in the U.S. these days...we'll have to see how things go down.

[-] sudo@lemmy.today 7 points 3 weeks ago

Except the army's own government website explicitly says otherwise

Any member of the military has a commonly understood obligation to disobey an illegal order;

https://www.army.mil/article/47175/breaking_ranks_dissent_and_the_military_professional

[-] AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

Odd that this page is still online...

[-] renamon_silver@lemmy.wtf 3 points 3 weeks ago

Fascists are not the brightest

[-] NotBillMurray@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

Tell me you never served in the military without telling me you never served in the military.

[-] InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world 3 points 3 weeks ago

I think we are talking past eachother here. We can talk a lot about what an illegal order is; how there is training to disobey one, but that is talking about how things ought to be not how they actually are. For example, we all have agreed to not speed and taken training on it as well, yet it happens all too often. It is not unreasonable to believe that a soldier will follow an illegal order because they want to or there is enough coercion.

[-] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 0 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

How do they work?

Is it possible to refuse to follow an order because you believe it is illegal?

[-] Dasus@lemmy.world 3 points 3 weeks ago

Basically yeah, you can refuse, but that's the more absolute form. What you should do if you suspect the legality of an order is to ask it in writing, register that you don't want to follow, but will comply.

Then afterwards you'll be less responsible. Depends on what it's about, you can't just register a complaint about killing kids and then do it anyway, but like for milder illegal orders.

[-] Pacattack57@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago

They can be court martialed either way. Literally an entire movie about it and a phrase that gets used everyday. Cache 22

[-] andros_rex@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

Catch 22 isn’t about illegal orders. The contradiction is more about your own sanity/safety.

[-] nik9000@programming.dev 2 points 3 weeks ago

There's a book called Catch 22. Looks like the made a movie of it. The book is the funniest thing I've ever read. Made me think about how crazy fighting is. Sort of like a funny Slaughterhouse-Five.

Neither mentioned illegal orders as far as I remember. Was the movie quite different?

[-] Mossheart@lemmy.ca 0 points 3 weeks ago

Surely it's a Catch 22, not a hidden supply of 22s stashed away somewhere?

[-] Rekorse@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 weeks ago

No thats actually cache 21, duh!

this post was submitted on 12 Jun 2025
221 points (99.1% liked)

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