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submitted 3 weeks ago by jackeroni@lemmy.ml to c/memes@lemmy.ml

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[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 15 points 2 weeks ago

I mentioned the DNC because it seemed like that's what you were going for. It isn't about "ideals," it's about property relations. Capitalism is the status quo, ergo liberalism is right wing.

[+] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world -8 points 2 weeks ago

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

Among the various regional and national movements, the civil rights movement in the United States during the 1960s strongly highlighted the liberal efforts for equal rights.[197] The Great Society project launched by President Lyndon B. Johnson oversaw the creation of Medicare and Medicaid, the establishment of Head Start and the Job Corps as part of the War on Poverty and the passage of the landmark Civil Rights Act of 1964, an altogether rapid series of events that some historians have dubbed the "Liberal Hour".[198]

Even in America, liberalism is left. And the meme interpreted as the left absolutely stands

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 12 points 2 weeks ago

None of those claimed liberalism was left wing. Liberalism is the ideological superstructure of capitalism, it supports private property rights above all else. I really think you need to step back for a second and try to see what others are telling you, rather than try to convince people that capitalism is left wing.

[+] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world -9 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Hey what's the title of this Princeton article

https://www.princeton.edu/~starr/articles/articles12/Starr_Center-left-liberalism.html

Anymore of this nonsense I'm just going to post chatgpt references cause I know how you all love that

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 12 points 2 weeks ago

Incredible, a liberal publication talking about political ideology within the confines of liberalism.

What do you think "left-wing" even means? Why would anyone consider liberalism to be left-wing?

[+] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world -9 points 2 weeks ago

I've been answering a lot of stuff here. How about you tell me what you define it as

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 13 points 2 weeks ago

I already did. Leftism is about progressing to the next mode of production, it's historically progressive and revolutionary. Rightism is about retaining the current system or trying to go backwards, ie the "good old days." Socialism is left wing, capitalism is right wing. Liberalism is the ideological superstructure of capitalism, ergo it's right wing.

Secondly, you never actually answered me about what it means to be left wing, or why you think capitalism is left wing. You just copied and pastied the first things you googled without engaging with the points made by others here and myself.

[-] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world -5 points 2 weeks ago

Have you heard of cooperatives. Would you categorize a cooperative as a right leaning concept

[-] chloroken@lemmy.ml 10 points 2 weeks ago

Melvin, you should listen to Cowbee. You're misinformed, but don't have to stay that way.

[-] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world -1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

It's Marxist theory. Marxism is not a universal theory on the subject. It's one of many lenses. So no he's not correct. It's more nuanced than they're suggesting. Which is misinformation.

[-] chloroken@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 weeks ago

Okay, I changed my mind, you're actually a goober. Good luck out there little buddy.

[-] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world -1 points 2 weeks ago

No? Give me something that proves it isn't. I have quoted everything from dictionaries to Princeton to media and all anyone is doing is repeating Marxist theory you're the trumpets of the left. Sorry but it's true

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 weeks ago

See my comment here.

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I have a Marxist PoV, as I am a Marxist-Leninist, but that isn't why liberalism is right-wing. Liberalism is right-wing because it is based on private property rights as the centerpoint, and that is the status quo. Maintaining the current status quo is a right-wing, conservative point of view, while the revolutionary, progressive point of view is in socialized ownership.

The definitions you keep linking are from liberal organizations that are benefited by constraining the window of political economic discussion to the confines of capitalist viewpoints. Often, they rely on the Overton Window, which is about what is considered more progressive or reactionary in a given window by the median opinion, ie if you have 100 people in a room, 3 are communists, 67 are bog-standard liberals, and 30 are conservative liberals, then by the Overton Window, you'd have 50 on the left and 50 on the right, with most liberals on the left. However, this erases the actually increasing momentum for socialism, and hides the fact that 97 people in the room are for the current system plus tweaks, and only 3 are for radical change.

The origin of the terms "left" began in France, when capitalism and liberalism were revolutionary, and monarchism was the status quo. We are far beyond the time when liberalism is capable of being seen as revolutionary, however, most of the world is dominated by private property. It is now socialism that is revolutionary, and it has been so for centuries.

I've provided a more nuanced, thorough, and complete analysis than you have, which is why other users are suggesting you listen to me. I can recommend some good works on political economic theory, if you'd like. There's a difference between nuance, and vibes, and you've relied heavily on vibes over nuance.