So apparently for lemmy.world mods pointing out that the word "anti-semite" is far more used than "antigypsyism, anti-Romanyism, antiziganism, ziganophobia, or Romaphobia” even though the Nazis targetted both Jews and Roma in the Holocaust, is, somehow, "Criticizing Jewish people as a whole".
Or maybe it's the whole "I don't care about any one specific race, I care about people and think it's always unjusct when people are treated differently based on things they were born with, such as race" that was deemed "Criticizing Jewish people as a whole".
Good old lemmy.world: they were called on it repeatedly so eventually walked back on the whole "criticizing Israel is anti-semitic" but apparently if you don't go along with the view that racism against a very specific group is much worse than racism against people from other groups, then you must be against that specific ethnic group.
My comment in text for reference:
All clearly as frequently used as "anti-semitism" /s
And yeah, I don't care about race, any race, I care about people, which includes that they're not unjustly treated for things that were not their choice, such as the race they were born into.
It's Racists who feel the need to care about a race or races, defending things for some races which they do noit defend for others, doing little performances about how others must care about those races too and that those who don't "are against those races" - for them race comes first, defining a person and dictating how they should be treated.
For Humanists race is something that should be of as little importance to how somebody is treated as the color of their eyes or how tall they are, and yet they see again and again race weponized by Racists to treat people differently even though those people haven't actually earned such treatment through their actions: in other words race fro Humanists is something that should be irrelevant yet has been turned by others into a pivot for injustice.
It's pretty obvious from your little performance which one you are
I'm pretty sure the nazis killed jewish people because they really hated specifically them. And that had been brooding in Hitler for quite some time already. And then "cleaning" the race was on their agenda, they were big into racism and genocide. It didn't even stop with the Gypsies. They also killed disabled people, "asocial" people, homosexuals, Jehova's witnesses, people opposing them, communists and generally a lot of civillians. Other coordinated efforts without death camps include killing most of the intellectuals in Poland, letting millions of people in the Sovjet Union starve to death. And then we get the regular war on top and those victims.
I think whataboutism or comparing those atrocities might be problematic, unless you offer some context and have something specific in mind.
I agree, the way I put it and without the rest of the context it doesn't translate well the point I was trying to make, and even though I tried to clear my viewpoint in later paragraphs (especially the one about Humanism), it was either badly done, not read by most people or too late to change the idea they made in the previous paragraphs.
Still, from that to it being "Criticizing Jewish people as a whole” as stated by the mod is a huge, huge leap.
My whole point is built as follows:
Absolutely, of this was the 1940s from a Humanitarian perspective it would make total sense that anti-semitism would be the kind of racial discrimination that people should be most alarmed about and fight the hardest against, because that was the one causing the most harm.
80 years later, in the 2020s, anti-semitism is far from one of the top most harmful forms of racial discrimination and hence the disproportionate alarm about it we see in the Press in many countries and even often here, is either artificial for propaganda purposes and/or based on many people holding Racial Preferences (often whilst thinking of themselves as anti-Racists) and hence reacting differently to the various kinds of racial discrimination, purely based on the targeted race rather than on any considerations about the harm being done.
It's in this - pardon my French - pile of shit of widespread Racist perspectives even in the very core of the fight against Racism, that we end up with situations of people claiming "anti-semitism" when somebody criticizes the ethnic Genocide being committed by Israel in Gaza when the worst (when measured by actual harm caused) form of racial discrimination in the present day in the World is probably that of the majority of the Israeli population against Palestinians.
Yeah, you have a point there. I mean if I were you, I'd be a bit more careful, some people are pedantic with the details. You really can't say things like "anti-semitism is far from one of the top most harmful forms of racial discrimination". Or the prasing you used for the 40s. Because jews aren't a race. So it's not racism. The jewish people always have been made up of different ethnicities. And for example Einstein didn't have a different skin color or race than any other German or American (I believe). Same applies to a lot of other jews.
(And secondly I'm not sure what even to make of all of those comparisons. Generally they're used to argue against someone. But it's true that antisemitism isn't the only issue on earth. We regularly also have atrocities in other places. Or millions of people are slaughtered or starve in Africa. Media reports on that for 3 days and then we forget. But what's the point here?)
Very much the core of my point.
You "can't" voice objective judgments on some forms of Racial Discrimination unless they're aligned the Prejudices and Racial Preferences of certain people (like that moderator) with regards to the targeted ethnicity of that discrimination otherwise you're deemed "against the race" (good old "If you're not with us, you must be against with us") even if you're trying to make a level headed analytical judgement of the "matching firefighting resources to the size of the fire" kind.
No, no, no, you have to claim it's a giant fire, the greatest fire there is, or the Racists will deem you Racist for "denial" of the size of the fire.
The whole thing is a fucking sacred cow, to which logic "cannot" be applied (only it can, it's just that some people refuse to accept its conclusions unless they go the way they favor).
With the fight against Racism so thoroughly infiltrated by Racists, even if it's usually mainly the so-called "benevolent" Racists (those who hold positive prejudices about certain ethnicities rather than negative ones), it is stupidly easy for the malevolent Racists (such as supremacists) to infiltrate and weaponize it to serve malevolent ends, which is exactly what happened to the fight against anti-semitism which was infiltrated and mostly subverted to serve the supremacist ends of Zionism.
By reacting as they do (as I described above and as observed in that moderator's behavior) to any rational analysis of the Racial Discrimination against any ethnicity for which they have a Racial Preference, the "benevolent" Racists shield the "malevolent" Racists and their subversion of that specific fight against Racial Discrimination and this in turn also has a negative impact on the whole edifice of the fight against Racism since others will spot the hypocrisy of the situation and many will conclude (erroneously, IMHO) that "it's all bullshit".
Further, all those "benevolent" Racists also distort the allocation of resources in the fight against Racism, pulling in "more firefighters" to "smaller fires" and away from "larger fires", which is what I was trying to demonstrate when I brought up Romaphobia.
This is how we ended up with the shit-show which is the fight against anti-Semitism in the present day, were most of the fight isn't against anti-semites anymore, it's against those who are against Racism in general.
Yeah. And I think it's far from ideal that everyone is yelling at each other on the internet. We have to remember that we're talking about actual people dying, often in horrible ways. And we should actually do something about it. Empty armchair activism or misinformation or just instrumentalizing them so we can have a nice fight on the internet isn't very ethical. Also doesn't do these people any good, it mainly leads to more hatred in the world.
As soon as the Zionist supremacists infiltrated and subverted this specific fight against Racial Discriminations, it was always going to turn into yelling at each other since their "arguments" don't work in the logical plane so they have to move the discussion to the emotional place, were they can use things such as Fear to really rally the masses whilst avoiding getting people thinking about it.
It's not by chance that they keep pulling out events from the Holocaust, 80 years ago, (and, worse, even whilst they themselves are committing a new Holocaust) to stoke Fear in some and Guilt in others, so that they indirectly get support thanks to the "criticizing Israel is anti-semitism" link they themselves created.
In all this, out comes a lemmy.world mod (a place which has a History of supporting Zionist Israel) using censorship and accusing somebody of being "Against the Race" when they dispute the balance between harm caused by anti-semitism and resources demanded to fight it in light of far more harmful and widespread forms of Racial Discrimination getting way less attention, EXACTLY as supremacists do (for example, the KKK when their claims of "attacks on Whites" are challenged, almost invariably end up accusing those critics of being "against Whites").
All this said, and to more directly address your point in your post, my objective with bring all this here was to raise awareness to such techniques and ideally get more people to come at things from a Humanist viewpoint of harm reduction to people rather than going along with the Racist viewpoint that it's races being harmed and that different judgment and treatment should be given to people of different races (even if the entry form into the Racist viewpoint is often a Racism disguised as "benevolent" - i.e. favoring specific races rather than disfavoring specific races).
Every person I convert to Humanism is one less person that falls into the trap of "benevolent" Racism (and either on the path to malevolent Racism, or easily manipulated by malevolent Racists) and this then gets reflected in the real World outside.
Humanists too fight against Discrimination (more broadly, against unjust treatment of people, especially harming them), only it's anchored in Principles about Natural Justice, and looking at and treating everybody who was born into an ethnic group (through no choice of theirs) the same, either better or worse than otherwise, isn't Just.
Yeah, I'd say the humanist perspective can't be wrong. I personally think we should add some Rationalist arguments and especially something like ideas from Effective Altruism. Wanting to convince someone on the internet of your perspective regularly has little effect on the world (in itself). And all the yelling really makes my head hurt. Some of it leads to people digging even deeper trenches and they spend all their day focused on some weird rigid ideas and details as if that was the issue. And that's the predominant way of talking about the subject.
It's not. The issue is that people suffer and die. And that needs to stop. And we need to find a way to address it.
I'd expect you to become subject to wrong decisions by moderators. Because they deal with agitated people all day and they're likely biased into thinking you're just another one of the dozens of people they deal with each day.
And there is a lot of confusion and accusations. I've been on the receiving end of that as well. Though I rarely engage in the discussion. I welcome the effort to use reason, though. And do something to stop all the yelling and start going somewhere. It's not easy. And all the things are connected.