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submitted 1 week ago by DwZ@lemmy.world to c/fuckcars@lemmy.world
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[-] socsa@piefed.social 4 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Which one of these vehicles expects to be operated in pedestrian spaces?

I don't know why this is so hard. Cars should also have speed limiters, and the reason they don't is bullshit tradition. As we invent the next paradigm in personal transportation we shouldn't be making the same mistakes. I really can't imagine how anyone could disagree with this unless they are acting in bad faith.

The existence of ebikes doesn't depreciate the existence of motorcycles or mopeds. If you want a motorcycle or moped then get one, but don't pretend it's ok to ride it on bike paths.

[-] hildegarde@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 points 1 week ago

Cars operate in pedestrian spaces all the time.

[-] TheObviousSolution@lemmy.ca -1 points 1 week ago

You make it sound like cars are driving over the sidewalk at the same propensity and speed that they are driving on the road.

[-] socsa@piefed.social -2 points 1 week ago

Yes, this is precisely what I mean by "bad faith." Even in the most terminally car brain culture there is effort made to separate pedestrian and automobile traffic, even if that means time interleaving on the same roadway. Very few places in the developed world allow pedestrians and automobiles to share the same roadway at the same time the way bicycles and pedestrians can.

The simple and (I thought) self evident premise here is that cyclists and pedestrians can coexist in ways pedestrians and motor vehicles cannot. Blurring the line between a bicycle and a moped serves nobody besides those who seek to perpetuate the exact same legacy ideas which currently force pedestrians and motor vehicles into needless, dangerous conflict.

[-] SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social 4 points 1 week ago

Even in the most terminally car brain culture there is effort made to separate pedestrian and automobile traffic

What's a "crosswalk" then?

[-] socsa@piefed.social 0 points 1 week ago

time interleaving on the same roadway.

[-] SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

That's what a crosswalk is.

Furthermore, for all modes of transport (even boats), crossing situations are where most crashes occur; overtaking crashes are relatively rare. The reason for not mixing vehicle and pedestrian traffic moving in the same direction (and the reason for creating sidewalks in the first place) is for speed and convenience of drivers, at the cost of pedestrian safety. Even in places where people walk in the street, crossings are where they most often get killed.

I'm upset because the government put a bunch of roads in between my house and the other places I like to go, so I have to be around cars in order to get places. I don't think that's fair.

[-] vithigar@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 week ago

I can't speak for elsewhere but in much of Canada the situation is opposite what you're suggesting. Bicycles are legally considered vehicles and are expected to use the road with other traffic if no bicycle lanes or designated paths are available. It is illegal for them to share the sidewalk with pedestrians.

This is, however, very rarely enforced.

[-] Corn@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 week ago

Mixing pedestrians, bicycles, and motorbikes on the same path is fine though, motorbikes can go around pedestrians in a way cars can't.

[-] hildegarde@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 1 week ago

It's bad faith to claim that city streets are exclusively for cars. City streets have always been mixed use spaces historically.

Cars are so dangerous they annexed the mixed use spaces they run in. Cars are a threat to everything around them. Bikes are forced into conflict with pedestrians as much as they are because of the amount space that has been seized by cars.

Roads need to be rebuilt to eliminate or control cars to make them safe to those around them. Cars are the most dangerous thing on the roads, and should be treated as the threat that they are.

[-] TheObviousSolution@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Furthermore, in contrast to a car, I see people in bycicles and even ebikes far less willing to brake for any obstacles or civilians in their path. This is because they are less adept at accelerating and braking, so they want to conserve momentum above all else. They also have less visibility at a glance given how bad or completely absent most bicycle mirrors are, and maintaining stability, having to operate the pedals, and having to turn your head and body far more often while being in a far more uncomfortable position makes for a far more stressed operator.

I've always considered it absurd that scooters can't have seats in a lot of countries, this is the one thing bicycles and ebikes get right and it allows for a safer ride with the possibility to rest from the stress of it. Being able to walk and use the road shouldn't be a vehicle training issue, it should be road education training issue. Speed, that is one that varies significantly, like Germany's autobahn shows. Cars can receive traffic tickets and revoking licenses. On an ebike, there isn't a license to revoke, and 25km/h is already considerably dangerous to bystanders, specially coming from a vehicle that far from being designed and tested for collisions is a mesh of protruding elements instead that also has the absence of an insurance provider for when accidents do happen

This is fuck cars, don't expect common sense to predominate, people here hate cars as if they were in a religion dedicated to it. I wonder how many just live in a bubble of privilege where the countries are wealthy enough to have the carless transit infrastructure and their lifestyles are sedentary enough and localized in a sufficiently centralized urban hub where they can actually hold those beliefs.

[-] otacon239@lemmy.world -1 points 1 week ago

But don’t you understand? I need to be able to go 130 mph at a moments notice! Just think of all the times I could need that!

this post was submitted on 11 Aug 2025
135 points (96.6% liked)

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