Plug-in balcony solar panels could mean cheaper power. But Canada needs to get on board first (www.cbc.ca)

submitted 8 months ago by Sunshine@piefed.ca to c/canada@lemmy.ca

28 comments fedilink hide all child comments

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments

[-] Drdul@lemmy.ca 8 points 8 months ago

Based on the cost of electricity in Canada, it would likely take over 10 years to pay off a balcony power system: https://solarenergies.ca/balcony-solar-panels-in-canada/

[-] rainwall@piefed.social 26 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Cool. Solar panels produce near 100% power until they are 30 years old, which is when they drop to about 80% efficiency.

They pay out at about 10% a year and produce something useful. That's a great investment that just keeps going.

[-] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 1 points 8 months ago

I believe in unicorns and solar panels that last over 15 years.

[-] rainwall@piefed.social 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

You should let us know about the unicorns, because solar panels are absolutely lasting 30+ years. Tons of data is coming in on 30 yr solar panels right now from geographic diverse locations like Switzerland and Australia. This article is 4 days old and confirms the above:

https://www.zmescience.com/ecology/renewable-energy-ecology/old-solar-panels-still-work/

[-] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 6 points 8 months ago

Agreed, Solar is not nearly as good in Canada compared to a lot of other countries.

We (mostly) have cheaper power AND we have less sunlight.

Germany has an average residential price for electricity around $0.60 CDN per kWh. Meanwhile I pay $0.145 per kWh in BC.

[-] OminousOrange@lemmy.ca 7 points 8 months ago

AND we have less sunlight.

Perhaps in BC, yes, but the rest of Canada has higher solar potential than much of Europe.

[-] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 1 points 8 months ago

Canada isn't just a strip along the US border... "Most" of Canada has lower solar potential than Europe.

It's irrelevant though, the electricity price is by far the largest factor in it being such a weak investment here.

[-] OminousOrange@lemmy.ca 3 points 8 months ago

Ah yes, my mistake, we should definitely be considering the solar PV that's going to be serving the grid in unpopulated parts of the country.

Still, my statement is still true when considering the north.

[-] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 2 points 8 months ago

Those unpopulated areas actually make the most sense for solar PV in Canada, they often either don't have electricity at all, or are using very expensive sources of electricity (like gas/diesel generators)

Here's the problem I'm having. For any of the places along the southern border of Canada, where electricity is cheap as fuck (fuck you Alberta and Saskatchewan), the payback costs on Solar PV (especially at the house scale) are essentially non-existent.

So for now, we should let other countries(along with Alberta and Saskatchewan) buy and install those panels and not have to compete with the rest of the country (which lowers the prices) for the currently limited supply of available panels.

We can install some in those other places in 20-30 years when the tech has gotten even cheaper and it finally does become viable financially.

It's not like BC, Ontario, and Quebec's electricity generation is particularly carbon intense, the are all under 10% fossil fuels already. It's almost all renewables or nuclear as it is.

[-] OminousOrange@lemmy.ca 1 points 8 months ago

AB and SK have among the higher electricity rates across all the provinces, but not by a considerable amount.

I agree, solar (with storage) does make sense for a community not connected to the grid and using generators locally, but a community being there thus makes it a populated place.

Is there a shortage of panels? I had no trouble getting mine and there's been no indication from suppliers that stock is limited.

[-] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 1 points 8 months ago

The average cost of electricity in Alberta is almost twice the value for BC. When doing a calculation for something like solar investment, that's a huge difference.

Production of solar panels is reasonable right now, but still limited compared to the potential demand which is why there's so much investment in new capacity. It's not that panels are unavailable, but there aren't just millions of panels laying around uninstalled either. They're rolling off the line, getting transported, and then getting installed.

The scale of "let's do this for the country" even with Canada being relatively small would end up impacting prices globally.

[-] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 1 points 8 months ago

China is making panels at 2x the demand. That cannot last.

[-] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 1 points 8 months ago

I haven't heard of warehouses full of unused panels. The increased production is just driving prices down and demand is still eating them up.

[-] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 1 points 8 months ago

Most of Canada lives within 100km of the US border.

[-] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 1 points 8 months ago

Most Canadians do, most of Canada is not...

[-] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 4 points 8 months ago

Solar is not nearly as good in Canada compared to a lot of other countries.

Of course, "not as good" doesn't mean "is totally useless" either.

[-] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 1 points 8 months ago

Toronto is at the same latitude as Rome.

[-] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 1 points 8 months ago

Rome has a residential electricity price of 0.35 Euros per kwh, which is about $0.50 cdn. Torontos midpeak price per kwh is 12.2 cents.

The latitude doesn't matter when the price of electricity is literally one fourth of the amount.

There isn't even a 4x difference between the north pole and the equator for solar irradiation.

[-] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 4 points 8 months ago

10 years is reasonable. 100% total return in 20 years. Pairing with power station provides portable power benefits, ups, grid backup, amping solutions, and time shifting increased use and larger systems.

Many traditional investments have resulted in worse performance than drinking beer and returning empties.

So convenient and low risk can make it attractive.

[-] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 1 points 8 months ago

Those panels, inverters, etc, will not last 20 years and the fly by night companies that sell them are gone in under 5 years.

[-] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 2 points 8 months ago

ultra light panels don't have a longevity track record and are extremely prone to deterioration when heat is trapped behind them. The cheaper, but heavier framed rooftop panels now can be warrantied for 30 years agains degradation, and unless physically damaged have little reason to take them down after 60 years. LiFePo batteries (cheaper than original lithium) charged once per day, they can last 30 years too.

It's a fair point that chargers and inverters will fail within 10 years or so. If going with LiFePo power station, they might need repair/part replacements, or you can recycle(paid for) the power station that stopped functioning. Power stations can provide value by bunding useful simple connections to a battery in a nice and portable case.

It's a matter of scale to have repair/recycling local industry. Home Depot or other stores not having a large solar/battery section means its less popular, and shipping a bigger portion of costs.