23
Goat and PugJesus take on DB0 ADMINS
(lemmy.world)
Starting with this post:
https://sh.itjust.works/post/44999037
Continues here:
https://sh.itjust.works/post/45035437
More posts discussing the fallout:
Dbzer0 admin claiming Uyghur genocide is 'overblown and misrepresented'
Dbzer0 admin casually defending Uyghur genocide denial because "libs worse", yikes
Banned from meanwhileongrad for "No db0 allowed".
Removed false allegations against goat from a post on db0
Another anarchist ~~tankie~~ did a write-up of the situation
More links: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/52444570
https://sh.itjust.works/comment/329886
First two I simply dont see from /0 staff nor the vast majority of the users you're delusional on both points. On the third neo liberal "democracy" isnt real and is largely a vessel for control by the capitalist oligarchic class, I do not think ML is the solution to that however.
Furthermore, despite aggressively (and rightly) removing other forms of genocide denial in that comm, both Holodomor and Uyghur Genocide denial are left up in that thread, despite the participation of multiple admins and the reporting of the material.
In addition to that, both Uyghur genocide denial and Holodomor denial in that same thread are upvoted by the Dbzer0 community.
How many dbzer0 users would you like me to cite engaging in Uyghur genocide denial or Holodomor denial before you'll concede that it might be a problem? Legitimate question, I know of a significant number, so I may be able to convince you if you're legitimately just skeptical.
Rather than being a reference to modern democratic states, the position is in relevance to the Spartacist Uprising, which proposed, in response to Germany's defeat in WW1 and subsequent incoming elections which the KPD was not barred from running in, and which were largely spearheaded by the then-much-more-left-wing-than-the-modern-day SPD, to attempt a coup explicitly along Bolshevik lines, which had, the previous year, dissolved a democratically elected revolutionary government in Russia.
DB0 believes that this vanguardist approach is true anarchist praxis, praising ML imitators as 'libertarian socialists'.
I dont see how unruffled is denying anything there merely pointing out that starving a entire population to death is on a different level to (still wrong keep in mind) more gradual chipping away of culture. And no frankly I dont need cherry picked "examples", the prevailing attitude on /0 is against denials of those events and taking a anti tankie stance.
And again neolib "democracy" is a bad joke most parties of Wiemar at that time were milquetoast 'social democrats' right wing nationalists & conservatives or even more milquetoast liberals. And that particular experiment in neolib statecraft ended in the Nazis taking power and killing millions.
"More gradual chipping away of culture" being mass sterilization, concentration camps, forced labor, suppression of Uyghur language, the destruction of cultural artifacts, literal settler colonialism, kidnapping children to place with Han families...
Very gradual, much chipping away, wow.
You also don't see how claiming that the Uyghur genocide (and putting genocide in quotes, implying that it's not a 'real' genocide, for that fucking matter) is overblown and exaggerated is denying anything?
Ah yes, the fact that they're highly upvoted anywhere outside of dbzer0's tankiejerk - including on flippanarchy and leftie memes - is completely irrelevant. None of the examples or evidence matters, only your feelings matter.
I'm sorry, did you not read what I wrote?
What part of the post-WW1 German elections, in a state which had not formed anything more than borders and a proposal for elections, whose electoral design was similar to the contemporary post-revolutionary Russian elections which ushered in a 90% socialist legislature, 'neolib'?
This is just going around in circles, China isnt causing mass starvation nor flattening nearly every building in Turkistan its still bad what is happening but practically which one can we sooner do something about and what is the most imminent risk to a population outright carpet bombing, shootings and starvation or a shitty tankiestate using authoritarian measures to hack away at a culture quite slowly while at the same time investing in some infrastructure and public services in the region.
Again I dont see how unruffled was denying that China was doing shit, you're grasping at straws.
And I simply dont see tankie campist related shit mass upvoted on /0 coms it doesn't happen, maybe you're confusing something that tankies & anarchists can agree on and is somewhat popular in both circles as a tankie concept.
And no the early Wismar legislature was not 90% socialist, if you're being generous and assume the SPD was genuinely left wing (not really IMO, was still beholden to capital interests) then at most it was about 45% "left" wing.
Zentrum, DNVP, DDP etc all had a signficiant chunk (conservatives, right wing nationalists & milquetoast liberals).
Okay? That's no reason to fucking deny or downplay it.
My previous comparison:
Upvoted pro-genocide comments on a single recent Dbzer0 thread:
Downvoted anti-genocide comments on a recent Dbzer0 thread:
(note also the upvoted comparison of Uyghur genocide to white genocide conspiracy theories)
Genocide denial left up:
Upvoted denial of UN-verified sexual assault:
I can wade into Flippanarchy and get you plenty of examples from there too, if you like.
I'm referring to the elected Russian government that the Bolsheviks overthrew - the Bolshevik overthrow being what the Spartacist Uprising explicitly sought to imitate.
Again I dont see unruffled denying it nor downplaying it.
Also nice cherrypicked screenshots lmao, im done you refuse to engage in anythng resambling good faith.
So if I said "Claims of Palestinian 'genocide' are mostly overblown and misrepresented by the left", and note 'genocide' in quotes, something which anyone with any decency in their body would recoil from, you, on the other hand, would regard that as neither a denial nor downplaying?
They're cherrypicked screenshots because... I demonstrated exactly what you said didn't happen on dbzer0?
Yes they are cherry picked, very rarely does that happen it simply doesn't happen en masse. Note how the tankie had a heap of downvotes along with upvotes & frankly a single comment with two.upvotes is really stretching the "/0 is tankie hurr durr" narrative you've concocted in your head.
So how many more examples do you want?
Oh, what am I saying? No number of examples would be enough.
Oh, it's fine to have a majority in favor of tankie positions, as long as there are some dissenters along with it. I guess the Holodomor denial with one downvote is okay too.
I specifically noted that one not as upvoted, but as genocide denial left up by the admins. Sorry that you didn't read what I posted?
Extremely weak examples on a com thats often visited by other instances... this is now coming across as pure seethe from you. They're still getting challenged and often made to look like clowns, and you are 100% cherry picking with the given examples when looking at the entire /0 instances attitudes and views strongly oppose tankie rethoric.
And im partially skim reading because I have a job and am getting ready to go to it, my apologies I dont have all day to sit around stirring drama and posting on a federated version of reddit.
They're literally not getting challenged, unless one downvote and no responses from dbzer0 users is 'getting challenged and often made to look like clowns'.
So if I go to Flippanarchy and give you the same kind of shite, will you cede the point?
https://sh.itjust.works/post/45124493 Nope I will not "cede the point" even when goat was trying to start shit via posting about the CCP crackdowns note how the vast majority of /0 agreed with the post.
Anyways I need to go to work and I've had my fill of your condensing smugness for today.
As suspected, no amount of evidence matters. Only feels matter.
The SPDs record is anti-democratic, they used elections to legitimize themselves then unleashed paramilitaries to crush organized workers. That’s not taking ‘democracy seriously,’ that’s narrowing what it means to protect the state.
Revolutionary democracy is more than just fucking ballots and voting. The entire point is mass participation, self organization and ongoing struggle.
The January uprising wasn’t a Bolshevik-style coup. It was a mass revolt sparked by SPD repression, which the KPD didn’t even plan and which Luxemburg herself thought was premature.
‘history major’
The elections hadn't happened yet. That's what the Spartacist uprising was trying to prevent - upcoming elections that they were not even barred from running in.
But tell me more about how the only response to an anti-democratic coup was to roll over and let the People's Fascists(tm) execute everyone and suppress democracy.
Curious that seems to so often be an excuse to disregard the clearly expressed will of the vast majority of the population. It turns out that your "Revolutionary democracy" actually means "A vanguardist clique whose conclusions are always referred to as the will of the people, no matter how many people actually express opposition".
The KPD literally voted on the subject, lmao. Talk about ignorance - or willingly spreading lies. It's difficult to tell with fascists.
Yes, Luxemburg herself thought it was a bad idea and voted against it. Luxemburg voted, in fact, to participate in the upcoming elections, which is, according to red fascists like you, bourgeois. Damn that neolib Luxemburg!
She was outvoted by the KPD leadership, which preferred a coup.
Yes, it is quite apparent that you, like so many other fascists, are 'tired of experts' getting in the way of your masturbatory totalitarian fantasies.
The whole “Bolshevik coup” line is just historical revisionism. Even the Prussian government’s own inquiry admitted the January events weren’t plotted by the KPD — it was mass strikes and councils spiraling beyond anyone’s control
If your idea of “democracy” is ballots in one hand and Freikorps in the other, you’re just proving my point.
The roman empire guy who hangs out at the nazi bar curated by the nazi goat sending unsolicited asshole pictures is in no position to call anyone a fascist lmao
Holy fucking shit, even your apologism is pathetic. Citing Heinrich August Winkler as proof against the KPD's coup, when Winkler was one of the most prominent voices against GDR apologism for the Spartacist Uprising? What, did the councils put a gun to Karl Liebknecht's head and make him and dozens of other KPD leaders vote for escalating the protests into a coup attempt?
The Freikorps were widely distrusted by the SPD, but like I said - you think that the only response to an attempted fascist coup should have been for the SPD to present themselves for execution. Fascists like you love it when democracy gives up without any attempt to fight back.
"You can't call anyone a fascist, you" [checks notes] "posted in a comm where tankies were criticized"
Yeah, that about tracks for fascist bootlickers like you. Does the blood of the genocided taste good, or is it the leather that you truly love?
You seem mad, maybe if you re-read the source you would see that I cited one of the top Luxemburg scholars alive today, who was in turn citing the original 1919 inquiry itself.
'history major'
You seem illiterate; if you re-read the source you would see it attempts to cite Heinrich August Winkler in support of its position despite his well-known opposition to that kind of KPD apologism. If you were literate, you might also note that nowhere does the report or the article (despite its attempt at apologism) refute the idea that the Spartacist Uprising was an attempted coup along Bolshevik lines approved by and participated in by the KPD. You, on the other hand, say
And then attempt to cite a source that says nothing to support you - but it sounded nice and asspatting towards the KPD, so of course your illiterate ass loved it.
Yes, I get it, you despise education. You made it clear the first time.
It literally has a passage from the report in it, that's the citation. It references Winkler at the end but he's not the source.
From the actual 1919 inquiry:
spoiler
The accusation you made was it was a centrally plotted KPD bolshevik coup, when the evidence from the time shows that it was not.
You've got it wrong, I despise the way you behave while acting like you're educated. Should have been clear the first time.
Sweetie, your illiteracy is showing again. This is the accusation I made, and I quote:
Sorry that you're incapable of parsing any sentence that isn't asspatting fascism. I understand it's a serious condition.
The way I behave being... calling you out on spreading disinformation in service to fascist ideals?
Wow, what a terrible way for an educated person to act. I see why a fascist bootlicker like you hates it.
does goat send you asshole DMs too?
I just love the extra sprinkling of sexism on display here. Never once in our dozens of comments has PJ called me "sweetie"
lmao yeah that was my cue to disengage and go to bed
You're certainly better at avoiding bait than I am :D
Lmao. Sorry that you can't comprehend calling someone sweetie unless they're female? My post history is full of it. Go ahead, use the search function - ah, what am I saying? Facts are inconvenient little things, I know you despise them.
Sorry, sweetie, that I didn't regard you lowly enough to condescend to until you started engaging in genocide denial and simping for fascism. :)
You used it this way, once, 9 months ago, against a person whose gender I didn't bother to investigate.
Sorry, I know that's higher than you can count and more words than you can read.
This validates what I said.
First one is not the same use
Second one is the one I mentioned
third is not the same use or the same word
fourth one is a different word and not the same use
That's the kind of response I would expect from someone who's incapable of reading what I wrote.
But no, I've been lucky enough to be spared that, though Goat doing so caused me to unsubscribe from MOG.
Ew.
Dude. Just fucking stop. This is going way beyond into pretty disgusting territory.
Edited to add: Your "response" is noted. Not into the casual sexism, and I find it extremely odd that you had no idea about goat. Just going to go ahead and save myself the headache now and block.