this post was submitted on 26 Sep 2025
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Ye Power Trippin' Bastards
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I disagree with the removal but you are wrong. Anti settler colonialism in Palestine use this argument of genetics and genealogical because those where exactly the main justification of Zionists forcing a state on the local Palestinians population. Many Zionists claim that they had has the right to create an ethnostate because of 2000 years old Jewish kingdom and continuous presence in the land while at the same time saying Palestinians are just Arab colonizers that should be transferred to other Arab countries while Israel take all the historical Palestine
So wouldn’t it make more sense to completely undermine this idea? Staking a similar claim makes it more debatable since both groups have at least superficially convincing historical narratives in play. And with anti-Palestinian racism being so commonplace in the west, people are biased towards Israeli narratives.
Whereas acknowledging that people always have a right to stay in their homeland just immediately undermines the exile and evictions involved in Israel’s colonialist project. It’s simple and easy to understand and directly rooted in basic human rights that everyone can empathize with.
No, we are not using the same type of argument to prove us right but to prove them wrong. There is people who really believe Zionists stupidest claims so yes it is important to use the same logic just to prove that the argument is so stupid and contradictory.
I just think by engaging in this argument you give it credence, and it’s such a confusing and technical one that most people aren’t going to understand or have the ability to debunk anything, so they’ll just go with their political affiliation.
I mean does the argument that European Jews have a claim to some distant land because some of their ancestors came from there hundreds to thousands of years ago really need to engaged with as a serious argument? I don’t think this really has much weight if you think about it.
Like, I have European ancestry. The implication here is I should be able to go back to those countries and kick someone out of their home just because of this fact? It’s a ridiculous and extremely violent idea. I think that’s going to be a lot easier to get people to see than quibbling about what percent of Jewish ancestors came from here or there.
Considered the amount of time i see this argument on social media show that the argument is a serious argument from zionists so yeah i think it is important to adress it
Just look at the far right demonstration in the uk. They couldn't gather as much people few years ago despite the ideology they hold that no civilized people should accept them
Even a ridiculous theory like fat earth is gaining popularity, 2% of Americans believe in it that's 6 millions people
Seems it's the rationalization of aasholes whether they be Israeli or Palestinian.
People have a right to live where they're born. More than 80% of Israelis were born there. The attempts made to dehumanize people for living where they were born by trekking then as Zionist or colonizers is racist and fascist.
OP is correct to see the connection between a movement that thinks in terms of blood and soil as being inherently wrong.
Someone is not a "colonizer" for living where they're born just because some racist aasholes don't approve of people of that ethnicity living that patch of dirt because of something in a history book. It's a fascist thing to use history to create grievance to rationalize their violence which they use for oppression.
This kind of historical grievance bullshit doesn't gain anything for anyone. It definitely isn't making anything better for Palestinians.
Please read again to understand what i am saying. I don't think Palestinian has the right to the whole land because of genetics but because they was the local population that was ethnically cleansing by Zionists to create Israel.
Nobody is arguing that nowadays Israelis don't have the right to live in the land and that they should be kicked out for the crimes of their parents and grand parents unlike Zionists who claim Palestinians are just colonizers . But in 48 most of the settlers was foreigners from Europe that forced a state over the local population.
You guy always have understanding issue so i will repeat the only reason the argument of Palestinians genetics is to prove that the argument is ridiculous . If Zionists really believe that argument which i don't they wouldn't say Israel has the right to the whole land because of it, they wouldn't call for Palestinians to be kicked out under the pretext that they are Arab colonizers.
The one who believe in a one state solution is the one who spread hatred and you who are justifying an supremacist and settler colonialist ideology is not . You are really a big idiot . My arguments are valid otherwise you would addressed them directly but you keep deflecting
I use the term Zionists because they are Zionists based on Herzl definition, i use the word colonizer because Israel is colonizing the west bank and occupying Gaza .
Palestinians are resisting a 58 goodman year of occupation yet you blame them rather than Israel the occupier who is committing genocide and you have the audacity to say that i don't care about the Palestinians
It is Israel who ethnically cleansing Palestinians to begin which and made sure that they would not return so no it was Israel who killed the right to return .It is Israel who killed the two state solution by occupying the west bank and Gaza in 67, it is Israel who killed the two state solution by never ending the settlements expansion . There is no Palestinians state because the whole world ignored Israel settler colonialism fir 7 decades
You shamelessly compare Palestinians to Germans when it is Israel who is acting like Nazi Germany, it is Netanyahu who is acting like Hitler. The cycle of hatred was started by Israel and will end by Israel abandoning their supremacist ideology and their intention to exterminate the Palestinians
You also have the audacity to call me an antisemite, should i remind you that Zionists killed many jews during their terrorists attacks before the creation of Israel. Should i remind you that some holocaust survivors is calling what happen in Gaza a genocide?
I am not an antisemite but you are a genocide and settler colonialism apologist
Zionism the creation of a Jewish majority state on a land already inhabited. Zionists are those who are justifying the forcing of a state on the local population also known as the Palestinians in 48. I do not call for ethnic cleansing of anybody unlike Zionist
This the terrible lie you pro settler colonialism and genocide supporters use. Your disgusting and irresponsible accusations of anybody against a supremacist and political ideology of being antisemite only hurt innocent jews and also advocating for the loss of jobs of many anti genocide and occupation people
It's your side that is acting like the mustaches guy. You shamelessly still comparing Palestinians and people believing in their freedom to be Hitler like while it is Israel who is acting like Nazi Germany
The Palestinian authority respected the term of the Oslo accords and Israel is the one who ignored it by building illegal settlements, arming the settlers to attack west bankers then protect them . So they could lead temporarily Palestine till Israel end occupation then an election should be done
The British alone are responsible of between 50 and 100 millions death in India alone. Iran colonialism is definitely not worse than European colonialism . Israel atrocities over 77 years of oppression is definitely worse than any atrocity Hamas did yet you are associating more responsibility to the oppressed over the oppressor
Again i support a one democratic state with equal rights for everybody. I do not support any colonialism. It's you who do
Iranian colonialism didn't kill ten thousands of people. 83% of the killed in Gaza are civilians
You keep accusing me of spreading hatred when it's only you who does while acting like you care about the innocent civilians.
You should go to reddit, your propaganda won't works on lemmy
Stop being disingenuous. I told you a million time I don't talk about current Israelis or the jews who was living in Palestine before the Zionist movement. I should remind you that there is 2 millions non jews in Israel so why do you keep talking about jews in general when we are talking about Israel as a state occupying another and Zionism as a political movement
I told you a million time that no Israeli should be displaced yet you keep lying about me advocating for ethnic cleansing , i never did and never will
Again you keep accusing me of thing I never say. Hamas committed war crimes everybody know about it now let's back to the topic Israel is the occupier who committed Hamas like atrocities for 77 years
Germany was the oppressor, Israel is the oppressor. Nazis committed a genocide, Israel is committing a genocide. So the real comparison is between Israel and Nazi Germany. Unlike you who justify the genocide, i will never do it
I want the hostages freed , Israel doesn't . Israeli themselves say it not me , not anti occupation people . I was Hamas brought to the justice but I also want Israel to be brough in justice
If you really wanted peace you would not justify genocide, you would ask Israel to end occupation so the cycle of hatred end
Israel is committing the murder which you are fine with it. Me , everything i write show that i do not support any murder
Again i don't support a single jews to be displaced , you are the one who is supporting the occupier committing a ethnic cleansing and genocide . I am also a semite.
If you think opposing Zionism is antisemite then you are accusing many jews of being antisemite . If you was alive during Nat Turner revolt you would have argued that slaves should stop hating their owners . If you was alive during Nana Sahib revolt you would have argued that Indians should stop hating their occupiers and you would have justified the British empire massacres. If you was alive during Pontiac's Rebellion you would have argued that indigenous people of America should have stop hating their occupier and justify the massacres in response of those revolt
IDK. That's at least not the full story, since one main reason that Israel exists is the holocaust. But I don't want to argue over those details.
Just because zionists argue with bullshit doesn't make it any better if you use that bullshit argumentation the other way around. Critizise the bullshit by pointing out that it is in fact bullshit. Not by steeping to the bullshitter's level.
Please educate yourself before spewing BS like that. There was no holocaust in 1896 when Herzl talked about forcing a state own Palestinians the local population or during the Belfour declaration . Even if it was true that it was because of the holocaust it's still BS because a genocide committing by German do not justify stealing lands from people who has nothing to do with the holocust
It's not BS to say that Palestinians the local population who are also descendent of the Canaanites and never left that land in response to Zionists advocating that all Palestinians should be kicked out because they claim that they Arab colonizers
Israel wasn't established until 1948. Herzl also proposed Argentinia. The Holocaust was the main trigger that led the UN to greenlight the project Israel.
International politics rarely/never happens because of notionsof justice or fairness, but always out of expedience of the actors involved. It was expedient for the west to establish Israel. Especially for post-war Germany. Look up what Adenauer said about Israel.
Where in that argument does genetics come into play?
Why do you keep embarrassing yourself? Herzl ended up picking Palestine in the end. Herzl is referred as the spiritual father of the Jewish State in Israel declaration of independence.
This is besides the point. The point is that the justification to steal land for people who had nothing to do with the holocaust is the biggest BS you can spew
UN decision was based on the reality on the ground in palestine and not the holocust. UN support had zero effect on preventing the creation of israel and helping it creation
Genetics provide information's about a population indigeneity
Disengage.
Edit: I wrote why I wanted to disengaged which could have been interpreted as further antagonization.
Warning :Do not insult or antagonize further as part of disengaging.
Do not violate the disengage rule
Accusing other of bad faith is not a violation?
Arguably it can be an explanation for the disengage but I agree it should be phrased differently, which is why I issued a warning to them as well
But you didn't remove his comment. The rule should be applied to both of us