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this post was submitted on 27 Aug 2023
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A lot of speculation, uncertainty and hypotheticals. The west will continue to support Ukraine against Russia.
Who do you think blew up the pipeline?
A case could probably be made for either side. Russia supposedly has done this before in Georgia
Sure, but it seems not even the US/NATO is claiming it was the Russians at this point. Actually, I'm not certain if they ever did so in the first place? I honestly don't remember.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tylerroush/2023/03/07/us-thinks-pro-ukrainian-group-blew-up-nord-stream-pipelines-report-says/
Yeah this article is missing the mark. Much like the larger conflict the U.S. is going to throw Ukranians under the bus for it's own agenda, like selling oil and gas to the EU at wildly inflated rates.
How exactly is the U.S. selling oil and weapons a win for anyone unless you're a Raytheon or Exxon executive?
I mean, there are active duty Ukranian soldiers that are missing limbs. How exactly did a forever war in Afghanistan work out for the general populace aside from annihilating a generation.
Then ask Russia to stop invading? That would help.
Have you ever played 4x games? What does it mean when an opponent starts ringing your territory with bases and trying to get everyone to ally against you?
Also if Russia just packed up and left today do you believe that there wouldn't be an immediate ethnic cleansing of the eastern Ukranian, Russian speaking population?
You mean the removal of the russian population that was occupying crymea? Besides those, I'm sure that there will be a lot of hate for russian speaking people, but tough fucking luck, guess why. Russian could have not invaded crymea and people would not have harboured hate for the ethnicity and language.
"Oh thanks for packing up and leaving, now my territory is destroyed and economy fucked up, thanks!" of course that people will blame tons fo thing in Russia, it's what I would expect of any oppressed population.
Are you not aware of the fact that a large part of the population of Ukraine, especially in the eastern parts of the country, are ethnic Russians who were born and raised there?
And why did you even bring up Crimea when the comment you replied to was clearly about Ukraine? Stop being dishonest.
Because it's part of eastern Ukraine. In any case, I believe that it's unfortunate that those people are recieving hate but what did you expect from other ukranians since the Crimea invasion? ofc the whole other country is pissed with Russians as a whole! I know that it's not their fault but it's hard to control the masses, and this doesn't even remotely justify a second invasion.
I really don't get why you say I'm being dishonest when I just disagree with you, it's like you think I know more than what I'm telling and I'm saying what I am to sway the public opinion in a certain way, and while I'm sure there's people like that, accusing everyone that disagrees with you of being dishonest really does a disservice to your argument.
No, it's not.
No, you very clearly don't. You have said that you want them to be "removed".
You are obviously dishonest.
It's still the source of the increasing hate Ukranians have for Russia. "Oh geez why do they hate us we just invaded their country lol xD"
I said that I want people from crimea removed because those are russians settlers that came to live there after the invasion in 2014, they are not ukranian citizens. If those setters ahd kids and those were born in there, it is what it is, they are still settlers that went to live there illegaly with no citizenship. I think that is unfortunate that Russian ethnic Ukranian citizens living in Donbass are recieving hate, but those people are not going to be removed from their homes, or whatever is left of those cities to be honest.
If you are saying that any person with russian ethnicity is going to be removed from donbass either by murder or exiling them into russia, I disagree. If you mean that they are going to prohibit any russian customs/language and purge the way they liked to leave, and thus cleanse the ethnicity, then I do agree with the fact that they are going to do that, and while it's unfortunate, I find it quite natural after an invasion. However, if those people have been in favour of the invasion, then they are clearly and unequivocally traitor to the country they want to live in, and it's on them if the get exiled. Like, it's not even a question that if you ally with the invading force you are a traitor to your country.
You are a massive piece of shit, and I hope you have a horrible day.
Fuck all the way off.
Says the one defending the invading country.
You can not find a single example of me defending Russia, this is you being dishonest again.
Oh, you are not the original commenter I responded to in this thread, you just jumped to attack me. My bad then, I didn't realize.
It's just the way you are so against the Ukranian defense that I assumed your support for the other party was implied, but I guess that you are just against both and your aim is to complain whatever happens. Yay.
Show me where I did this.
This whole thread where you are defending the rights of the settlers to live there. You can't be that oblivious that what your stance implies.
I any case, it's clear that your stance is that all western government is bad and you wish for it all to burn down before starting anew because they are in general all evil bad actors. Feel free to correct me if my impression is wrong. I do agree that there are faults, plenty of them, but I fundamentally disagree that it all needs to burn down and I see that we will get nothing from continuing this conversation. Plus, you feel like people can't be lazy with their responses, everything must have an evil intention against your ideas and if anything said is incorrect (which I did acept was incorrect when pointed) it is done so intentionally with the objective to deceive. There is nothing to be disucussed with someone like this, so I'm just going to stop responding. I'll read your response if you do but don't expect another comment.
I wish you genuinely have a nice day.
If you seriously believe that every ethnic Russian living in eastern Ukraine is a "settler", you are a special kind of stupid.
I hope you step on a piece of Lego.
Just to clarify this point since I did NOT say whay you say I'm saying. I'm guessing that you got confused since I rammed a lot of stuff in the same paragraph, but still.
My statement
And as you stated, those are not in easter Ukraine, so idk where you got that notion.
They aren't interested in liberating Ukraine either. They have been on the wrong side of every fucking military conflict for like 75 years, but now they have decided to be liberators?
No, I remember the cold war and the multiple proxy wars the US instigated then too. They were in the wrong and the destruction of the USSR was a tragedy. The neoliberals got exactly what they wanted in the creation of the Russian Federation, but that just meant more war in the end, as we see with the current conflict. Yeltsin was NATO's guy, and Putin was Yeltsin's guy. Fuckin' whoops.
Coming out strong for Mujahideen freedom fighters, I see
Russia now sells oil and gas through Saudi Arabia who sells it to the EU at a sizeable markup. Russia is still selling their gas and oil, just through an intermediary and their economy has been almost unphased despite an initial drop at the beginning of the 2020 offensive. Russia had only money to lose by blowing up it's own oil pipeline, the U.S. has benefited immensely through oil/gas sales to countries affected.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/14/energy/russia-oil-exports-iea-report/index.html
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1009056/gdp-growth-rate-russia/
Stock buybacks and other practices demonstrate that fluffing market numbers when you are allowed to sell stocks can be quite easy as well.
Why sell oil when the US can sell weapons? It helps that Russia can't sell theirs.
Unhinged
:pit::stalin-gun-1::stalin-gun-2:
This is a win/win for everyone except Russian invaders.
Well, and all the dead ukrainians
I'm sure the majority of Ukrainians would rather fight for their very existence instead of rolling over and ending up a Russian satellite state again.
Yes, because they would much rather undergo another Holodomor.
Russian mercy is well understood.
Please engage with contemporary, mainstream historians who have studied the now open Soviet archives. I recommend R. W. Davies and Stephen G. Wheatcroft, The Years of Hunger: Soviet Agriculture, 1931-1933. You can just read the introduction (all but the first edition) where they discuss and go into detail on Holodomor as genocide. It’s in English and pretty accessible to lay people. The rest of the book will likely be of no interest to you, as it’s part of a series of very dry academic publications by the authors that goes into the minutiae of Soviet agriculture. If that interests you, go for it.
This book is in libgen.
Saying the holodomor was a genocide is the same as saying the dust bowl was a genocide.
More like saying the Indian or Irish famines were a genocide.
HoLOLodomor