"This is the most important investigation of Germany's postwar history because of its potential political implications," says a senior security official.
And yet, nobody in Germany cares. Neither officials nor the people (nor me). The pipe should never have been built, so let's be thankful to whoever helped us un-building it.
Indeed. And even if Ukraine did it IMO it's a reasonable target in a war like this. Wouldn't bother me.
This. So what if Ukraine destroyed the pipeline. Russia invaded their country. Its war. All bets are off when it comes to war. The Ukrainians are allowed to attack Russian assets. Whether they did it themselves or they were helped by the US doesn't particularly matter. Short of boots on the ground the USA is doing everything it can to support Ukraine in this war. Russia and Russian propagandists can go fuck themselves.
This. So what if Ukraine destroyed the pipeline. Russia invaded their country. Its war.
How about this as a draft of how to react?
But they didn't attack the Russian side. They have commited an act of war against an ally. Oh, and of course they kept importing and transfering Russian gas none-the-less... through lines they get paid for. Not really surprising given the fact that they had also pushed lies and propaganda about Germany for half a year at that point (We could see German weapons delivered to Ukraine in videos back in March or see Russians document German mines in April while Ukrainian officials still openly lied that not a single piece promised -including from before the war- was ever delivered... in June. We also will not simply forget the lying propagadist pushing desinformation in Germany for 7 years while pretending to be an actual ambassador), but very telling.
Proof that they detonated the pipelines that weren't even in use, so purely for symbolical reasons, and were also willing to attack the infrastructure of a country supporting them to do so would very well fit the picture and should have the obvious consequences:
Supporting them right now makes sense from humanitarian and geo-political perspectives. Once that acute problem is handled... let's treat them exactly like the "Russia light" corrupt shit hole that is lying, pushing propaganda and carrying out false-flag operation against an ally even, probably while believing this to be actual foreign politics.
Best thing that could’ve happened to Germany and Europe. For too long have they been suckling on Russia’s tits and became too dependent on cheap Russian gas.
I understand why they did it originally - tie them to you as an ally, so it’s in all parties’ best interests to behave. Gives both sides benefits. But it assumes all parties are rational, and Putin isn’t. I feel sorry for the Russians who don’t know/understand this, since they’ll be paying for this long after Putin offs himself/falls out a window. But fuck Putin.
Yeah... I always suspected it was Ukraine, since what would Russia gain from destroying it?
Weirdly enough, I think it might have benefited Germany by removing the insane option to bow to Russia's blackmail. Just the debate might destabilize the government / society. With NS gone, there wasn't any question.
If it was Russia, a possible motive would be so that they frame the US for blowing it up in the hope that Europe would then blame the US for destroying the supply of gas to Europe. One of the biggest goals of Russia's disinformation campaigns is to hurt relations between the US and Europe by portraying the US as the bad guy.
A one weird thing is that Russia surprisingly didn't push this issue very hard. I expected a lot of Russia-sponsored propaganda and finger-pointing in the German mediaspace, but there wasn't that much.
Do you think if we ask nicely they'll hit the Trans Mountain next?
Ah yeah, all this evidence like:
One of the three or four ships in the world with a moon pool that could supply and enable divers to work at the depth of the pipeline, hanging around the area after a naval maneuver less than five days before the explosion
A US Navy anti-submarine plane (indeed, one of the only planes in the world with the ability to generate a signal that would reach to the depth of the pipeline) flying the length of the pipeline almost exactly 24 hours before the explosion
And the Commander in Chief of the most ~~expensive~~ powerful military in the world, explaining that the Nordstream pipelines would be brought offline by any means necessary (not shown in the photo, he is standing literally right next to Olaf Scholz - the Chancellor of Germany - who did not even attempt to contradict his statement).
Great, the hexbear loonies escaped the asylum again
Bootlickers: try not to respond with accusations of mental illness challenge: (IMPOSSIBLE) (GONE WRONG) (GONE NATO)
Do you have a rebuttal to the argument or are you just trolling?
I mean... Man's got a good point here lol. As far as circumstantial evidence goes, this is pretty damning.
A lot of speculation, uncertainty and hypotheticals. The west will continue to support Ukraine against Russia.
Who do you think blew up the pipeline?
A case could probably be made for either side. Russia supposedly has done this before in Georgia
Sure, but it seems not even the US/NATO is claiming it was the Russians at this point. Actually, I'm not certain if they ever did so in the first place? I honestly don't remember.
Yeah this article is missing the mark. Much like the larger conflict the U.S. is going to throw Ukranians under the bus for it's own agenda, like selling oil and gas to the EU at wildly inflated rates.
Why sell oil when the US can sell weapons? It helps that Russia can't sell theirs.
"Of course it does! We trained those divers well, they wouldn't generate evidence for our investigators to find that points back to us now would they?"
Great, the hexbear loonies escaped the asylum again
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obviously with the support and assent of the US, but it is a funny counterfactual if the US posturing had actually been to politically pressure the end of Nordstream & it actually fucked up the plan when rogue ukrainians blew it up
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