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Rural Towns don't have to Suck (be car dominated)
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this post was submitted on 16 Sep 2023
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Most of what goes on in a rural place is far away from downtowns. People don't live in downtown, people live on rural plots of land miles away from downtowns, on dirt roads and things. That's what you'd be addressing talking about car dominated rural areas. How do you get to the very walkable downtown? A train that takes you the next state over is not what we are really talking about when comparing to cities with trams and busses and subways.
As far as the mention of sustainable infrastructure, I'm in agreement with this guy. Rural downtowns are dying because of bad planning. You have to funnel people through the downtown for the land to maintain value, not build 70mph bypasses. But rural areas, not just the downtowns but the whole rural area surrounding it, are not going to be adequately traversable with busses and trains. Bicycles, sure, it takes a long time but it is doable. Walking, alright, but it's a lot of work and can be hours to get a few miles, people just aren't going to do it. Even before cars, people stayed on their land and only went into town every few weeks to do business, and took a horse and buggy along a road.
You don't have traffic there. There will be no accidents because only 1 or 2 people drive in a given piece of road for the whole day. Dirt roads don't take government subsidy money and isn't much of a tax money drain. There will be no pipelines for water, no pipelines for sewage. Essentially there are no infrastructure problems to complain about in a "real rural town" you described because it should largely be self sustained. And I haven't seen a single person talking against them or campaigning to get rid of them. It's a non issue.
But if there is traffic, if there are car crashes, if the town is financially struggling due to infrastructure costs, then all of the points in the video become very important.
But you need cars for those places, which means you need parking lots downtown for those people. That traffic in downtown, where you you think it comes from? Those 1 or 2 cars driving down that dirt road, they're driving somewhere or from somewhere. The dirt roads meet at a main thoroughfare, paved, that takes them downtown.
Watch NotJustBikes' video about transportation in small towns in the Netherlands.
https://youtu.be/ztpcWUqVpIg?si=__hNy7iCZOA5D8bw
You ride your bike (or drive) to the latest bus stop and take the bus. With that approach, the parking needs will be scattered and be kept away from urban areas.
OK, I get that, but where does the bus go? It goes somewhere right? It's not about "oh look a a bus stop" it's about the actual transportation itself.
I've said this in reference to the UK, but the same applies to the Netherlands. You cannot compare rural Europe with rural north America. Europe is very densely populated by American standards, you can drive a hundred miles here and not see a house. We aren't talking about small towns, you can make small towns walkable, cyclable, I agree. But their size and density makes them easily walkable and cyclable already. The problem is getting from your 5 acres 10 miles away from the downtown. Rural Europe is more comparable to suburban America, which I would totally agree, needs better transportation infrastructure.
The Netherlands is a wonderful place, but you just can't take their model and apply it to Nevada or Wyoming. There are towns of 1 in Wyoming that are 50 miles from the nearest town. You can put a bus stop in if you want, it won't take you anywhere. People don't realize how large and sparsely populated north america is.
I thought we agreed that rural transportation is not the issue. The issue is when rural people come to downtown? So the bus doesn't need to go to the deep in the middle of nowhere. It only needs to go to the edge of town where an arterial road runs and so by definition has more people going the same way. The bus only needs to go from the edge of town where the landscape is becoming more suburban to the downtown where cars cars cannot be accommodated.
You agreed that suburbs are in need of better transport, yes? Rural people can drive to the suburb amd use the same transport. Mind you a rural person doesn't go to downtown every day so this should not burden the suburban public transport in any way. And also by definition the rural population is miniscule compared to the suburban population.
If its just 10-15 miles, an ebike is a perfect candidate. This is exactly the scenario mentioned in NJBs videos. If its just 10 miles, you don't need to use a car for downtown at all. It's within ebiking distance. I thought we talked about when people in an area of thousands of acres (who all live hundreds of miles away from eachother) come to the downtown at the same time, which I don't think is something that actually happens in real life.
But enough rambling from me. What do you think the solution should be?
I think the solution is trails that run into towns from outlying areas, where there even are downtowns, for cycling or walking or whatever, allowing slower moving motorized and non motorized transportation on rural roadways with minimal restrictions. For really rural areas where there are no downtowns, I don't think you can do anything but let people get around the way they want to.
I agree with this. Car-lite is a great goal in cities, where population density is higher and it's easier to place people, services, and work closer to each other and connect them with public transport.
Rural areas, it's rural for a reason. You'll still need more cars, proportionately-speaking.
Drive. What's wrong with driving from a rural plot of land to a walkable downtown? That's how I live currently and I think it's great.
Well that's my point. But the fuck cars people in here want to get rid of cars. Personally I'd like to live a life where I never need to drive a car, but that's infeasible even in a perfect world for a lot of people and that's all I'm saying.
i don't think anyone here wants to completely get rid of cars that's silly 😛
Is this a variation on the, "No one drives anymore, there's too much traffic?" While the economic driver of many of these communities is agriculture, the number of people in town vastly outnumber those living in the county. In economics, the general rule is that for every $1 brought into a community, it stimulates ~$4 of economic activity locally. These jobs are more likely to be located in town than in the county.
This doesn't mean we forget about those living in the county. If we can make downtowns more livable and reduce the need of the in-town population to drive, we can reduce traffic and become more sustainable (both environmentally and economically. For those out in the county, maybe they do still need to drive in town, but once they park there's a better chance they can complete all their tasks on foot. For communities that do a great job of urbanizing, public transit can lead to variations of park-and-rides where county dwellers only need to drive to the edge of town or a bus/train stop.
Why would I do that when I can just keep driving to my destinations? I'm in town to buy stuff, probably lots of it because it's a trip. I'm not going to store A, buying more than I can carry... and then what?
I'm thinking of a place where multiple destinations are within walking distance. For example, the rural city I live in has a beautiful, historic downtown where you can hit up dozens of stores in <1km walk. I often bike (or even drive) downtown and walk between my 3-5 destinations to get my chores done. If I need to walk back to the car to drop off stuff, it's not a big deal. And with less parking, those stores can be closer together and the walk can be more pleasant. Plus, many urbanist communities are charging for parking, which incentivizes patrons to consider whether they need to drive right to the store front.
Bags and carts exist. If it's a big load, many stores have loading bays where I'll often buy what I need then after I'm done everything else, I'll make a quick loop to pick up what I've ordered, instead of them needing sufficient parking for every patron for the whole time they're shopping.