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this post was submitted on 17 Sep 2023
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"The grid can't handle it" is a bullshit argument that is easy to sell to people who want to keep their IC cars. The difference between highest demand and lowest demand in Ontario this week was 7000MW, if everyone charges their car at night there is power available AND it helps increase the base load which is good for the gird operators.
Even individual buildings may not need to upgrade their main service even with rapid chargers, the operators just need to keep in mind not to run the oven, dryer, AC and car charger at the same time.
https://www.ieso.ca/power-data
Yes the power plants can pump out enough, but not all transfer stations are able to handle the load, each individual hub, may not be able to handle the load.
It’s far more nuanced than this even, but don’t believe everything everyone is selling you, everyone has an agenda and no one is going to tell you the entire truth.
If an entire block suddenly goes EV one night the infrastructure isn’t there, it’s slowly being updated which you don’t see, but there’s issues out there.
New Brunswick had a program in the 1970s/80s to get people to switch to electric home heating due to the oil shocks. That was far more ambitious than what is being proposed here.
Edit. I was curious, so I looked up recent numbers for home heating in NB, as it's the area I'm most familiar with.
From 2000-2020, the number of residences increased by 46,000 (285,000 to 331,000). Overall, 72% of which are detached houses. The market share of electric heating went from 57% overall to 79% in those 22 years.
New generation was limited to ~400MW nameplate of wind and one 250MW combined cycle natural gas plant, while several older coal/heavy oil units were mothballed, so overall output hardly changed.
There are a lot of places that grew a lot faster. Yet, the power stayed on.
Moot point, nowhere will suddenly switch to electric vehicles overnight.
Multi family complexes do all the time, richer neighborhoods typically adopt EVs faster. Some municipalities are passing legislation mandating their use. Just because you can’t see it being an issue doesn’t make it moot.
It’s happened before, which is why it’s a known issue, so it’s far from moot if it’s happened before, no?
Point out one example of an entire block switching to electric vehicles overnight then.
https://www.victoria.ca/EN/main/residents/planning-development/development-services/electric-vehicle-readiness-in-new-construction.html
Municipality requires new buildings to be EV ready, ANY infill neighborhood would fit the requirements for your example. That’s just one city, happening all over the world.
But hey, continue with your head in the sand.
Requiring new building to be electric vehicle ready seems to be a no brainer, but that’s not what we’re talking about.
I’m asking you to provide some proof to your claims that whole blocks are going to switch to electric vehicles overnight.
Infills are where you rip buildings down and replace them with new ones, this triggers code changes. So any place with these mandates and allow infills can have this happening.
If your focusing on just the literal definition of “overnight… we’ll I can’t help there, but infills fit the requirements of your required “proof”.
No it doesn't. They asked for proof of a place that it has happened, you've provided proof of places where it could happen. That still doesn't change that it's incredibly unlikely for an entire neighbourhood to replace all their vehicles in a short period of time and even more unlikely that they would all be EVs.
We’ve had customers be “refused” to be able to get their transformer upgraded. I can’t provide anything to prove this, other than it’s a possible issue and proof point to that.
The refusal came down to, they couldn’t get to their transformer for about 90 days, so they still had an EV and an EV charger, but it couldn’t be used or have final inspection until the power corp could get around to doing theirs.
Emergencies always take precedence, and you never know if you’re that house on the block that will be the straw to break the back.
Believe me if you want, or don’t, but that doesn’t change that it’s definitely already an issue.
It's not a matter of believing you or not. You were asked a simple question and you repeatedly didn't answer it while ending every comment with an insult as if the person you were responding to was an idiot.
I don't even disagree with you entirely, I don't think it's as big of a problem as you made it out to be but I don't think you're incorrect. You can make those points without being condescending though because the way you're replying will just make people dig their heels in.
I answered the question quite well actually, if someone comes in with zero knowledge on the subject, how am I supposed to know? Most people who engage in conversations at least have a grasp on the basics before calling someone out.
I knew right of the bat that the user wasn’t here to discuss in good faith based off how they came at me. Most of my lead up comments to the one they responded to touched on most of what I reexplained to the user.
Your life would be easier if you learned how to take some light criticism without getting overly defensive.
Those are you words not mine.
I’m asking you to provide some back up for your claims.
If you don’t understand how people could be put on a waitlist to get an EV charger because they can’t get a transformer installed because they the Nth house. I can’t help you.
Was I supposed to pick that up from your comment?
If you weren’t so focused on the literal definition of “overnight”, yeah.
Yeah I guess that’s my fault for reading the literal words you used as the main part of your argument instead of reading into them the way you just told me to.
Most of what I reexplained to you had already been touched on my comments leading up to our initial conversation.
So I thought you had a modicum of comprehension for the topic, my apologies that you only came here in bad faith.
I read your conversation and jumped in with my point that things aren’t going to change overnight.
I figured I made that point pretty clear, but I guess it wasn’t clear enough for some.
What a shit show these comments. Time wasted.
You could teach that other commenter a thing or two about being clear.
Everyone in the burbs run their AC full tilt all summer and the grid holds up just fine. An EV charger used overnight, when your AC runs less, would present no more of a load than the daytime high usage. Stop pushing anti-electrification bullshit, or move to Alberta, they love that shit.
Who charges overnight? Everyone just plugs it in when they get home. It’s an issue that can’t just be handwaved away like that.
Sure stuff can be on a timer, but codes need to be presented, adopted and they need to installed. That takes years, it’s already too late.
Dude, electric car's are about 25 computers on wheels. Adding a "charge between hours" function is so trivial I would be surprised if it doesn't already exist. But no, you're right, computers are a complicated pipe dream, we should all go back to coal burning, steam powered, difference engines and horseless carriages.
I own an EV and there's definitely a setting in the car to specify what time of day to charge (and my charger itself also has an app where I can specify that time restriction).
Panel and code calculations don’t care about those yet and it’s going to be a long time until they do.
It's fun seeing someone with so little understanding of electricity spreading the misinformation someone else fed them.
Most houses existing panel have the capacity for a level 2 charger.
100amp or 200amp? I figured a main upgrade will be inevitable with the push to electrify more than the car in houses.
Depends, a 200amp nearly for sure has capacity. A 100amp likely does, but depends how electrified they already are, but many smaller houses that still heat with natural gas will have lots of space left in a 100 amp service
Strange, most homes where I live only have 20-50 amp services, neither being enough for a level 2 with all the other required panel loads.
News flash, codes are different in different places!
20amp service? Lol, ya if you live in an RV park an EV might not be a great option for you.
Townhouses and condos……
No. I'm in a condo, it is minimum 100 amp. Same in the townhomes I lived at
Codes and standards need to adopt those functions, right now there is only a couple of code complaint ways to deal with it on a panel end.
Can you explain why that matters if the hardware at the charger could initiate and control all that?
If it’s permanently installed it’s potential needs to be accounted for at all times, there is some conditionals, like ignoring AC during winter, but there’s nothing for intermittent loads, since it can still potentially be done at anytime.
A friend showed me his overnight Tesla fill up. 6 bucks. That really doesn't seem like much power used compared to everyone running baseboard heaters here in the winter.