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this post was submitted on 18 Sep 2023
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From my amateur independent digging I actually found people fall into three groups on this, not two:
Aphantasia - Not being able to visualize 8at all*
What I consider "regular" visualization, ie a "minds eye" or "back of the mind" sort of thing, that's distinctly different from how you normally see visually with your eyes.
Prophantasia - In which you can visualize things that appear to you how simply looking at something would appear.
I saw someone on reddit apparently go from aphantasia to prophantasia but people were calling BS on them. I'm in group 2 myself and would love to be able to do prophantasia. So I'm curious if anyone has managed it?
This 3-category thing is why you see so many people think they have aphantasia, well above the expected 3%. People in category 2 find out about category 3 and assume that's what most people can do.
yup. I thought I had aphantasia for a while because of this. Turns out, no. People with aphantasia can't even do that #2 type. They're just completely incapable of handling images or 3d scenes in their mind at all.
Very interesting, I'd never heard of prophantasia before. I have a friend who definitely has that (or at least, claims to and I see no reason why he'd lie, he's quite brusque and 'painfully honest' in all other areas and happy to admit other deficiences). He says it's really useful when he's designing circuitry / LED devices to be able to move things around in 3D.
Both 2 and 3 can mentally manipulate objects in 3D. I have type 2 as I mentioned, but I can do full 3d rotations and such. It's just a "minds eye" kinda thing and not like i'm actually seeing it with my eyes. That makes it kinda difficult to line up my minds eye comprehension with the actual world I see in front of me. whereas people with prophantasia or that third type, should have no issues lining up their visualization with their actual vision.
Okay wait.
My time spent in a custom job shop wondering why people are such morons may have just clicked into place. I spent a few years of my life drawing things in CAD software for clients--most of the software I used created solids in a default bland grey. And some variation of the following conversation would always happen.
"Here's what I got."
"It's not going to be grey, is it?"
"...No, I'm going to build it out of wood, it'll look like wood."
"But it doesn't look like wood, it's grey."
"That's the computer model, I was focused on the shapes and dimensions."
"I can't see it unless it's brown like wood."
I spent the whole time thinking the world was just full of retrotards who went to business school for so long they literally can't imagine "This, but brown." You're telling me this is congenital?
No, being an idiot is different.
I was an aerospace machinist in a past life and I'm aphantasic. Never was it a hindrance in me making parts. You were just having a conversation with an idiot, which makes sense because shops seem to hire a lot of them.
There's a difference between understanding "this isn't going to be what it looks like, it'll look like wood" and actually being able to visualize and "see" the wood version in your head prior to completion.
So looking at your grey version, someone with aphantasia (who isn't a moron) might be like "I can't visualize/imagine it as wood, could I see what that looks like?", as in they understand it will be wood, but may have no clue what that actually looks like until it's in front of them.
What you're describing just sounds like a run of the mill idiot who also may have aphantasia.
I'm mostly group 2, but I can 'see' simple things if I want to, although they're somewhat ghostly in appearance. I found that drawing was a good way to start. Begin by drawing simple objects accurately, really focus on their shape and texture. That level of observation help you learn to really see things, rather than just looking at them. With that level of mental model it becomes easier to overlay or insert it into your perception of reality. With practice you get better at it.
Bear in mind that this is just my experience and I don't have much to base it on except what's worked for me.
So I'm firmly in type 2. I can close my eyes and just see black/the back of my eyelids. No matter how hard I try I will never be able to "override" my actual vision. Instead, I have a sort of "mental" model in my brain which can handle imagery and 3d scenes and such, but it's very different in experience than my actual vision. The two don't overlap at all for me.
"ghostly" is how I'd describe it, but it's really a different set of qualia altogether, not a "faint" version of my vision.
But yeah as you mention a few comments here kinda makes it sound like it's just a matter of practicing visualization (trying to create objects within my actual field of vision, as well as "emphasize" or "focus" on my #2 visualization). I'll have to spend time seeing if I can practice it...
I'm curious about what 2 is like, cause I'm pretty sure I'm 1 but not entirely sure so would be interested to know how it works for people who know they're 2.