759
Some positivity for your day!
(lemmy.world)
Things have gotten better and progress has been made from times past, it just seems worse now because we have more access to information. We've come far, and have further to go!
The poverty rate stuff is pure bs. The world bank just lowered the stated official poverty line without actually improving living conditions.
https://www.jasonhickel.org/blog/2019/2/3/pinker-and-global-poverty
besides this, China did a huge job on getting people out of poverty - if you like or not
Mass producing shit at inhuman factories with deaths by the millions. I guess you're not poor if you're just dead.
Technically correct. A dead person is neither rich nor poor.
So that's what happened to the middle class.
The best kind of correct
Look at the statistics. I am not lying. You can complain, but that are facts.
What statistics? The one the CCP made up? Over a quarter of chinese are still in extreme poverty and a huge amount of chinese still have an income of under 1500 yuan a month.
Sure, they might have lifted some people out of poverty, but they also put them into poverty in the first place under mao. So celebrating this is kind of self congratulatory.
You can google it. It takes just a few seconds. I think you can handle it... If I search it for you, you wouldn't believe it.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/56213271.amp
I did. It's state propaganda.
By that definition france lifted millions of people out of poverty.
LOL!
How many people has the US lifted out of poverty? How many people has Britain lifted out of poverty? How many has any state in the EU lifted out of poverty? And france isn't even mentioned in the article. Vietnam is btw. socialistic.
The US didnt have to lift X people out of poverty because it never had this problem in the first place. The US didnt let millions die in famines. There is also no other country boasting about how many people they got to a survivable state since 1980.
How well is your understanding of english? We already discussed what you think is a counterargument before you came up with it.
The fact that you dont understand why i chose france shows that your understanding of these arguments and the underlying reasons are too high for you.
Let me rephrase it for a 5 year old.
France had royalty and many rich people but also many many poor people. Those lived under poverty. They then killed the royalty and reshaped france. Now france is better and those people were not in poverty anymore. Does this make sense to you?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States
LOL!
Because you just linked a statistic on poverty. A statistic that as you can see started at 25 (in a time where this data wasnt even tracked) and ended at 12.
Your heartwarming story about china and its 0.7 Percent is; let me bold this so you see the difference; extreme poverty. And again. Chinas poverty is directly in relation to policies made by the chinese ruling party.
Chona started at 98% and is still on a modest 14+
Great Britain in 2020 had a poverty rate (5.50 per day) of 0.7 percent.
China has 20 times that. Just editing that in here because later you compared britain to china.
I am asking again if you understand what i am writing. Because you made it very clear up to this point thst you do not understand.
I don't know if you remember the meme... but it's about extreme poverty and extreme poverty declines, because China does a huge job in this field. This is a fact. And you said that poverty is not a problem in the USA. You're always saying, that you can't compare those numbers, because you have to measure them differently, but it's also fact, that poverty were rising in the US, while it was declining in China. If the west would do such an excellent job in fighting against poverty, we would all knew it and there wouldn't be a need to mention China. Also if you're comparing it worldwide China is still leading, while in the West poverty rises. Google risk of poverty in europe, the last few years were horrific. And you also have to mention, that if the west can do everything good, the west can also fight against poverty. But here we are and we are seeing nothing. I don't know if you understand the problem or if you are just against China.
What? English please. Here's an article. This one explains why this oh so huge achievement has not been made in other countries. To save everyone some time: Because no other country had this problem.
If you wanna bring up a "risk of poverty" then please also provide some statistics on why this is relevant.
The CCP doesn't even have a statistic on this.
https://www.ilo.org/static/english/intserv/working-papers/wp023/index.html
I am speaking english. What is your fucking problem? What are you talking about? Others countries don't have such problems? Ok, bro... There are no poor people in the west. It's a myth. I have understood.
The conclusion approves my statements. I don't know what you wanna say. Can you please speak english?
Yes. No other country had hundreds of millions of people in extreme poverty.
So you're saying other states have it easier to solve their own problems? Thx.
😂 Is it states or countries now? Yes. Other countries have not caused hundreds of millions of people to be in extreme poverty.
Other countries also do not have:
动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989. 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle.
大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward
文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution.
新疆維吾爾自治區 The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region
Oh, so you're saying Great Britain did nothing during colonization? Come on, this is ridiculous, now.
You forgot the "Beep Boop Boop", if you wanna spam Bot-things. It makes it easier to understand for me.
Is Great Britian boasting about how many people they "lifted out of poverty"? Did Great Britian have millions of people in extreme poverty in 2019? No. No they don't and didn't.
Oh, if it's like this, everything is ok. Hail the King.
You cannot seriously try to ask whataboutisms and then be a crybaby when the answer contradicts your argument.
How are you this knowledgable about chinese happenings but at the same time such a CCP shill?
Who taught you all you know?
xinhua? Globaltimes china?
Beep Boop Boop Xi Winnie Pooh Beep Boop Boop Bootlicker
I don't know - how do I know? I've read a lot of books. It's that easy. And if you wanna complain that I am chinese - in fact I am not. I am not a native english speaker, you're right. Die Lösung des Rätsels ist einfacher, als man annehmen mag.
Come on dude, get a global view. It's terrible how narrow your sight is.
Ironic coming from the guy that says the exact same things the CCP churns out and uses the same excuses and whataboutisms to deflect from real arguments against chinese claims that sinos do.
Every argument i brought against your claims was met by mocking. Ironically when i tell you that your data is on another widely different topic and i show you data from the same source that shows that china is doing horrible in that regard all you can andwer with is temper tantrums.
How is anyone supposed to take you serious when you throw a tantrum everytime someone proves that your claims are less favorable than you portray them as and in other cases just repeat obvious state propaganda.
Please give me some book recommendations because as i see it China is a totalitarian hellhole.
Feel free to give me sources that prove that it isn't.
It was met by mocking, because you can't deal with facts. Even the things you showed were on my side of view.
How can I take you serious, if you think that china is the hell on earth? Your sight is narrow. I can't give you one book, those are many and I've read them in german. So I can't recommend them to you. Besides this some are just papers about politics... You can even grab some from BPB. Maybe this is one, which could be interesting: https://www.booklooker.de/B%C3%BCcher/Angebote/autor=Mecklenburg+Jens%3B+Wippermann+Wolfgang&titel=Roter+Holocaust
Oh yes. Communist holocaust relativism. Awesome book!
I read these. I dont know how but they paint a much worse picture and one of them is actually written by a chinese person.
Cry more about narrow views and only believing one source when all you have read is tankie books and CCP Propaganda.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008MWNEXI/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B008MWNEXI&linkCode=as2&tag=litekick-20
https://www.medimops.de/jung-chang-mao-the-unknown-story-taschenbuch-M00679746323.html?variant=UsedGood&creative=&sitelink=&gclid=Cj0KCQjwpc-oBhCGARIsAH6ote_ovAFfW8hvmpn6WyMyAr_v3MNGKDEORm7_iDY2g1IYD-Wyu7OWuU8aApY9EALw_wcB
lol 10 seconds search about Yang Jisheng and I found massive critics about him. Nice. Well done. Is it that difficult to get good sources? The book that I recommended you is not a about relativating the "red holocaust", it's about getting the facts straight. In germany a lot of people would hate you, if you would say communist holocaust, because indeed this shows that you don't understand what the word holocaust means and you're doing holocaust relativism. I don't know if you know Jürgen Habermas, but I think you should learn a lot from him.
btw. did you know that Nazis, who attacked the sovietunion and were killed in combat are official victims of communism? Funny, right?
No, my relatives and colleagues also see the deaths of the chinese communist party as a holocaust. The great leap forward is widely described as one.
And the one book you mentioned is directly talking down the millions of lives sacrificed. It has also been widely disproven. Its just communist propaganda.
I also didnt just link one book. I linked multiple. Have you read them?
Come back when you have.
Ok, if your relatives and collegues see it like that it has to be true. They're jewish right? Why don't you say it was a famine or a genocide? Why a holocaust? Cause you don't know what holocaust means. Read Habermas!
How do you know that the book is directly talking down the millions of lives? Have you read it?
What have you linked? Books from Yang Jisheng? Well done... Next you wanna give me links to the victims of communism foundation, who also believe that covid is a virus made in chinese laboratories and that every, who died from it is also a victim of communism.
Are you jewish? Are you chinese? Are you a former USSR Citizen?
If not then i would greatly recommend not pulling that card. If my grandpa would hear you downplaying communist war atrocities he would probably shoot you. I linked 2 Books. Have you read them? Or did you just decide that my books dont count and only you and your tankie friends know what really happened?
Do u understand the religious meaning of the word holocaust? I think you don't do. Holocaust is a word specificly for the genocide on jewish people. If you wanna describe genocides done to other people I recommend to you not to use the word holocaust, because if you do, you always compare it with the crimes of the Nazis. And if you do this, you are doing holocaust-relativism. And I hope you understand why this is insensitive, cause the crimes the Nazis did is best know as industrial genocide - they gased, shot and starved people in a scale nobody can imagine. Even the crimes of the communists weren't that bad. I deeply recommend Habermas to you to understand the problem. It's not only a problem of scale, it's a philosophical problem. And because you are doing holocaust-relativism and don't want to understand what the Nazis did, I don't wanna talk to you anymore. I'm feeling sick, because of you.
It's fine dude. You're moving goalposts.
On one hand youre supporting authoritan communism on the other hand youre so sick of people calling the genocides in china holocausts.
Do you want to defend chinas genocides that caused over 60 million deaths and counting or do you wanna remind people of how bad that time was when nazis killed 6+ Million People?
Good when china, bad when Germany?
Its always the same with you tankies. You get disproven and you change to the next miniscule thing. How about you disprove that 60 Million People died in China and that china has never apologized for that, the tianenmen square massacre or the cultural revolution. How about you disprove the genocide on the people of the uyghurs.
Then we can talk again about what the CCP wants to spread as propaganda.
Oh you're comparing scales? Are we on this level? I don't know, if you have so much self-awareness, but you're doing a huge job on relativing Nazis. Why do liberals always tend to do this bullshit? Aren't you able to talk about genocides without doing it? Is there a need for it? No, it isn't. You idiots don't understand what you're doing. I can talk about the things china did, no problem - but I am getting angry, if you only want to do it, cause you love Nazis.
Mhm. Sure kiddo. Im a liberal and a nazi... that makes so much sense. I recommend therapy
liberal democracies are breeding grounds for fascism.
I recommend theory.
Theory on what? You're proving more and more that you are delulu.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism
If you aren't a Nazi or a Liberal, why are you repeating the nonsense from them?
Because i know chinese. And you are a tankie. And because its really fun to debate with you because all your arguments are so weak and everytime i scrape away at the foundation you pivot. Like a little worm. Its just fun.
said the person, who doesn't know what the holocaust is...
Moving goalposts still. Keep going. This is fun.
if it's your goal to do holocaust-relativism...
If you look at the history of western countries industrializing it didn't look much better.
Life expectancy has also gone up. You’re lying through your fucking teeth.