92
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 08 Oct 2023
92 points (98.9% liked)
World News
39001 readers
1058 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
This horrible situation will forever continue to rear it's ugly head until the west are willing to back a two state solution.
The west has been supporting a two state solution since at least 1993.
Technically the west has supported a two state solution since 1937.
That's why Israel is getting 38 billion dollars (!) in a ten year period from the US, everyone knows you need an absurd amount of military equipment to reach a consensual two state solution.
It kind of is, yes.
If Israel didn't have military hegemony in the region, there certainly wouldn't be any two-state solution that would include an Israel or any form of jewish nation.
Surely you understand the meaning of consensual.
I don't see how the military hegemony you openly spouse could lead to any sort of consensual agreement. Hegemony, by definition, is directly opposed to consensus.
Next thing you'll tell me the settler colonialism and de facto apartheid state Israel is directly enabling are absolutely necessary, for geopolitical reasons obviously.
Besides all that, if the point you're trying to make is that Israel needs the military spending to maintain its territorial integrity, I seriously question they would need 38bn USD in foreign aid just for that.
And that would be ignoring the fact Israel has been increasingly extending its territorial integrity over palestinian land for the duration of the conflict, and will continue to do so. Not a lot of “two-state solution” in that.
Is it "consensual" if one party in a war surrenders to the terms of the victor after a military defeat? I'm not sure this is the right concept to apply here.
What I'm saying is that Israel has had military hegemony for quite some time and has made several attempts to negotiate a peace (of course on their terms). A two-state solution was at least on the table.
I just can't see this happening in a scenario if the power was reversed. The charters of the Palestinian militant groups makes it very clear that their goal is total military victory.
So yes, if you want the prospect of a two-state solution, you have to support Israel.
I mean, of course. After negotiate fail and fighting resums, your objective is to get into a more favourable position for the next round of negotiate. That's how this works.
But at this point I agree that Israel has also given up on a two-state solutuion. That's why they switched to slow annexation by settlemts in the west bank. And we'll see what happens to gaza, soon.
I don't think western influence will be enough, this will keep going so long as both sides are chasing revenge. Israel escalated by attacking Palestinians in a mosque on a holy day, Palestine escalated by attacking a synagogue on a holy day but more intensely, Israel will then escalate by invading.
The USA alone provides Israel with $3.8bn of military aid per year. Western influence might not be all that is needed, but I can't see how it wouldn't have a substantial effect.
We were able to recognise that Nelson Mandela wasn't only not a terrorist, but a hero. Now it's time for us to take an intellectually honest look at what the government of Israel's policies are doing to the Palestinian people.
The west should not only stop direct support of Israel, but cut all ties.
Us aid should be made contigent on abiding by a new set of accords
Nelson Mandela was a terrorist, and also a hero.
Being a terrorist, objectively with no emotional connotations connected, is about tactics. Plenty of freedom fighters use terroristic tactics. Plenty of groups that aren't labelled terrorists use terrorist tactics. A key strategy in warfare is to inspire fear in your enemies. The underdog always has these tactics in his back pocket, and often it's his most powerful weapon. Sometimes he's a brute and a wannabe dictator or aspiring genocide committer, sometimes he's a freedom fighter, often enough he's both.
At the end of the day, all warfare involves killing people for strategic reasons. It's brutal. Hurling mud with the word "terrorist" does nobody any good in understanding the situation. It is very useful though in propagandizing a population and bypassing their critical thinking capability for an emotional reaction. Sanitizing war though as if there's a good boy type behavior and a bad boy type behavior is senseless. In war, the worst things that can happen to people happen to people, always and forever. People engaging in war do what they need to do. Whether its right or wrong depends on whether you buy their narrative about their motivations, and whether you have unwavering universally applied principles of right and wrong.
The region needs UN peacekeeping forces
I dunno, the two peoples really need to be separated somehow. At this point, the only way to prevent conflict is to keep them apart, with both moved away from the holy site they both claim and fight over.
It’s literally only Palestine that doesn’t back a two state solution.
Israel accepted the two state solution originally that gave Palestine all the territory they currently claim, and made Jerusalem an internationally controlled territory not owned by either state.
Palestine rejected it and started murdering civilians.