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Philip Morris lobbying to stop WHO ‘attack’ on vapes and similar products
(www.theguardian.com)
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this post was submitted on 13 Oct 2023
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Vapes are even worse than cigarettes, for real.
Care to cite your sources in that claim? I'm know they are far from anything that could be considered "good" but "worse than cigs" is news to me.
I am not the previous poster, but the argument that I've heard on that front is that smoking was already trending rapidly downwards in use and would have made itself obsolete within a couple generations.
Vaping on the other hand established itself as a "safer" alternative to smoking and became trendy with more younger people who wouldn't have smoked in the first place.
Yeah, that's in no way worse than inhaling smoke and dozens of proven carcinogens...
Vaping is worse than nothing, but the notion that it's worse than smoking is completely deranged.
Unless those Truth ads are to be believed; the ones that claim vapes release toxic heavy metals from the coils.
They are not to be believed. I'm shocked you fell for a Truth campaign, if that's what you're insinuating.
No one claims vaping is good for you, but there is very little evidence of the damage they may cause up until this point, and basically anything is better than smoking a cigarette.
There are a lot of issues we could discuss, such as how addictive they are, or how they're often owned by big tobacco rebranding themselves in deceitful ways, but the grandiose claims are overwhelmingly fabricated.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29467105/ so this study is bullshit? I know Truth likes to bend what the truth is, but there are several studies indicating the metal presence in many brands of vape products. Even the American Lung Association warns of it.
While I can't speak to this specific paper, I know that the methodologies of several of these kind of "studies" are horribly flawed. I know there was one that found that heavy metals were released by coils ... when the wattage was cranked up so high that no person would ever even be able to use the product that way. For non-vapers, if the wattage is too high, the cotton wick burns as well, and is impossible to inhale. The simple fact is that if the cotton wick isn't burning, there's no way the coil is getting hot enough to produce free metal vapors.
Remember when there was that rash of deaths? And nicotine vapes got the blame right away? Yeah, that was because some bathtub lab THC vape carts had vitamin E acetate in them. Remember when there was a lot of talk about popcorn lung? That was because of diacetyl, which is a butter flavor. Nobody has used it for a very long time.
I'm not trying to say that vaping is healthier than not vaping, but it is definitely safer than smoking tobacco. As a harm reduction method, it is a valuable tool.
Thank you for the knowledge and patience you've demonstrated, I agree with and appreciate everything you wrote.
Without access to the full paper, it's hard to say. The abstract only mentions how many products they tested, but not what those products were. There's no way of knowing if those products came from reputable manufacturers or if they were shady knock-off or low-quality products.
See the long reply to your comment. I've seen you around whenever I log on, and you're often loud and wrong. I've discovered it's a safe bet to go against most of what you say.
I'd rather take the word of actual established centers of study, like the ALA, over random people on the internet. But you do you.
In this study, they heated the coil to a very high temp that is not indicative of actual e cig usages.
Additionally, we use different metals for coils now. Instead deferring to stainless steel or ceramic heating elements which are not affected in the same way as this study indicates.
It's still not as bad as smoking but it is dangerous, especially with off brand or damaged vapes. If you don't regularly clean and inspect your vape you can end up getting terrible infections or some fairly toxic chemicals.
Vaping has also caused a spike in STDs which is fun.
Completely anecdotal, but it was able to get me, my wife and my father to all stop smoking by switching to vaping and then eventually quitting vaping.
Ditto. Both my wife and I were heavy smokers and moved to vapes. As soon as I used a vape I thought "this is the solution!" after trying to quit smoking many times for decades.
They really provide 80 to 90% of the satisfaction of a cigarette and take the edge off those moments when you damn well need a ciggie.
After a couple of years of vaping I find it now much easier to do without them for a few days, although I do like one with a beer.
You have to have been on that 10 or 20 year journey of smoking cigarettes to understand how hard they are to put down, and vaping was the tool that got me away from burning the evil tobacco leaf.
I was a a pack - pack and a half a day smoker for 12 years. Had tried to quit for many years and had all but given up when i tried a salt nicotine vape. A month later i was smoke free, and 2 weeks after that i had kicked the vape (was never a fan of nicotine by itself, so the vape was easy to kick). This was about 2 and a half years ago now. Vapes are an indispensable tool to quit smoking.
A wonderful outcome!
Nicotine pouches are same as any gum, patch etc.
Vaping is a safer alternative. 95% safer.
Nicotine is about as dangerous and addictive as caffeine (actually a bit less so, but that's splitting hairs). You should really be more concerned about kids being able to buy energy drinks than vapes.
Source: Me. I've been following the research on this for nearly 15 years.
Nicotine is more addictive than caffeine in the quantities you regularly consume it and vaping has more serious side effects than drinking a cup of coffee. You're completely correct about vaping being safer than smoking though - for life long smokers the vape can be quite impactful on their long term health... but it's still much healthier to do neither.
Their sources are effective propaganda campaigns that greatly distort the validity or results of studies based on poor scientific journalism.
This is incorrect and an easy to debunk claim.. the tar in cigarettes is extremely harmful and vaping removes that element. However, vaping is still bad for you and it is still just as addictive.
I found it much easier to quit vaping, compared to cigarettes. There are nicotine free liquids, so you can slowly wean off.
This is my experience, having quit my 10 year cigarette addiction via vaping (after dozens of failed attempts to quit), then accidentally re-addicting myself 5 years later (via vaping) — then quitting again after another year.
Vaping is arguably more addictive due to the nicotine salts, taste, and ease of use, but it's also far easier to quit — plus my health improved dramatically when I switched to vaping.
When I first quit with vaping, I just gradually reduced the nicotine level down to zero, then continued vaping no-nic for months until I stopped completely; the key part is sticking to the no-nic no matter what (at parties or whenever drinking). Decoupling the habit from the addiction means you don't have to stop both at once. The second time around it only took a single attempt, except I went straight to no-nic.
Yes, I think decoupling is worth a lot!
Also true what you say about more addictive due to reasons.
Overall very informative comment, thanks!
Do you keep your vape device stored somewhere over the years in case of a relapse? Or do you get a new one when needed? I see arguments for both sides.
That's what I didm smoked cigs for 10 years tried quitting many times I bought a vape with blue raz juice all the way for the top to 0nic and every two weeks I would lower my nicotine levels after a few months I was on 0 and tossed it. Nicotine free for 6 years. Thank you vaping for helping me quit nicotine
Well done! Stay strong 🤜🤛
110% false. Vaping is far safer
It's different from cigarettes. You don't get all the tar and stuff, but many people get even more nicotine, which is bad for your heart and addictive. I would say it's likely better, but it's different.
(There's also non-nicotine vape products which often aren't regulated so can cause all kinds of issues.)
Easily the best answer i've gotten on this thread.
I don't see where they're arguing that vaping is worse, that's a strawman, they're arguing that both are bad.
Sure, but they're clearly wrong in that and in the comment above they conceded the point. You're just kicking a dead horse at this point.
Nicotine isn't bad for your heart. In fact, it can be beneficial.
If you're going to make a claim like that, at least back it up with something, and no you're almost certainly wrong.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4363846/
I wouldn't trust that meta analysis. It specifically states in the methodology that studies that mentioned smoking or cigarettes were excluded, but several studies that I spot checked were about smoking and cigarettes.