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I've seen a lot of posts on this site that are leaning into anti semetic tropes while criticizing Israel. I want to point it out so that folks can recognize it.

First, because I have to say it:

Israel is a colonial outpost of the United States. It was created by Britain and inherited by the US. The US gives Israel ~3,000,000,000 USD in aid every year. As a colony, it should be the goal of every socialist to destroy it, just as we seek the destruction of the US, Northern Ireland, South Korea, Canada, the Phillipine state, etc.

But! Israel is also a safe haven for Jews. This is seperable from the colonial nature of the state. Israel could have been created in Germany or Siberia or frankly Florida for that matter (in fact, annexing Florida to create a new state of Israel is what I mean when i refer to "the one state solution"). In many ways, the US with its civil rights act serves the same purpose, and in fact, most Jews live in the US.

Many of us had ancestors in Germany or Poland during the holocaust who did not stick around after the war. They saw Israel as their best shot at safety in the wake of the holocaust. Many Israelis are liberals, hoping to vote out Likud, stop supporting settlements, and negotiate palestinian statehood. These people are advocating half measures, sure, but they are not our enemies.

So I wanted to point out some anti-semetic tropes I've seen on this website and call them out so you can recognize them.

Conflating Jews in Israel with Zionists.

This can be done through omission. If you aren't clear whether you're talking about jews or a specific institution (for example, the I"D"F or the settlements or Likud), many people will read your statement as being about Jews. Be careful with the word "they"

erasing the ambivalent position of jews within colonialism / conflating jewishness with whiteness

The zionist entity is not a Jewish colonial project, but an Anglo colonial project. It was created by the British and now is funded by the US Americans. Jews are an oppressed minority whose oppression is leveraged against other oppressed peoples. Similarly to how the US uses Kurds to Balkanize Iraq or The Hmong to wage counterinsurgency in Laos, it's uses Jews to destabilize the Levant.

Outside of the US, jews are largely understood as a racial group and oppressed on that basis. Especially in the Arab world where the Islamic hyper nationalism has gained ground in response to colonialism and been funded further by colonialists to their own ends (google "the safari club" or "Israel funds Hamas")

Blood Libel

This one is the assertion that Jews are uniquely bloodthirsty / murder non Jewish children. The classic example of this myth that people are familiar with is Runplestiltskin.

It is true that the IDF under the direction of Likud and the US state is murdering many Gazans, the majority of whom are children. but! be careful to specify. When people talk about "jews" or "israelis" generally as perpetuating the murder of children, they are engaging in the blood libel trope. Again, be careful with the word "they" and specify which entities you're talking about.

calling for ethnic cleansing

Okay, wtf ya'll. It's not jews as an ethnicity that are oppressing Palestinians, it is US imperial power. Jews have always lived in Palestine and the occupation only began in the 40s as part of a British initiative.

Jews will always be part of a palestinian state, and frankly need protections as ethnic and religious minorities. We do not seek the expulsion of Jews from Palestine, but their integration into it as citizens.

Jews are safe in the US not because its a colonial state but because of civil rights protections and generational wealth. If we can create civil rights protections in Palestine and a social safety net (ideally communism but I'll settle for social democracy), then jews will be safe in Palestine.

Jewish control of America / protocols of the elders of zion

America controls Israel and not vice versa. APEC is not a cabal brainwashing otherwise Nobel Christian politicians. US politicians support Israel because they're colonial politicians and Israel is our colony. APEC exists because lobbying is how power is exercised in the US, but if we had patronage instead, APEC' functions would be carried our by a governor or an ambassador or whatever.

conclusion

Recognize the role of the US empire in Palestinian oppression. Recognize that jews are in an ambivalent racial category and are an oppressed people. Be specific when criticizing Israeli colonialism. Name who you're criticizing, is it the settlements? The IDF? Likud? The US military Industrial Complex? Stop calling for ethnic cleansing of jews if you've been doing that. Don't equate jewishness with whiteness / the Nazis. White people are white people, the US is the Nazis.

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[-] StellarTabi@hexbear.net 138 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I've seen a lot of posts on this site that are leaning into anti semitic tropes while criticizing Israel.

This is a pretty strong claim to make without presenting any evidence. In fact, is an extremely common thing reactionaries will say, and if any evidence is eventually presented, 99% it's something inanely unoffensive like a lot of words for "free parking" or "plz no murder".

For anyone who choose to read my comment but not the rest of OP's post, the rest of OP's post does have good points about not using terms that can be interpreted as antisemitic dog-whistles.

IMO rephrasing this as an educational PSA instead an accusation would be better.

[-] DayOfDoom@hexbear.net 24 points 1 year ago

I've been posting and endlessly reposting the power metal remix of Cum Town riffing on the idea of an Elders Of Zion hard rock/metal song.

[-] Nagarjuna@hexbear.net 24 points 1 year ago

I didn't say "if you're criticizing Israel, you've been doing it antisemetically" I said "a lot of people have been leaning on antisemetic tropes while criticizing Israel."

I'm not going to dig up every post I've reported, but I'll encourage you to look out for it the next time you're in the news thread. You'll see what I mean.

[-] Adkml@hexbear.net 85 points 1 year ago

"I'm not going to provide any evidence of the incendiary claim I'm making."

Perfect, assertions made without evidence can be dismissed without thought.

[-] JohnBrownNote@hexbear.net 7 points 1 year ago

i'm not going to go digging for stuff i saw in the news mega 3 days ago, but i can be a little more specific about what I saw than OP https://hexbear.net/comment/4116393

[-] dannoffs@lemmy.sdf.org 56 points 1 year ago

Just dig up one then. Not that I don't believe you, but the "its so prevalent that it's not worth my time to show a concrete example" is a common tactic of people arguing in bad faith.

[-] RollaD20@hexbear.net 13 points 1 year ago

https://hexbear.net/comment/4096717 here's one. I agree with this post but have been wary of calling it out specifically because of this response btw.

[-] kristina@hexbear.net 44 points 1 year ago

this comment breaks so many rules, including the nsfw tag rule. the only reason it wasnt removed is no one reported it.

REPORT THINGS.

[-] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 23 points 1 year ago

the only reason it wasnt removed is no one reported it.

[-] RollaD20@hexbear.net 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yeah I should have. I just assumed that someone else would considering how heinous it was and how early I saw it. I'll do better on that regard.

Regarding other less viscerally memorable comments on Israel, I do worry about reporting things and being assumed to be a zionist. Especially since shit is terrible right now and I don't know where the line is in terms of tone policing or insensitivity to people venting in this space during a particularly fucked up time. Idk maybe that's just me overthinking things or being paranoid.

[-] kristina@hexbear.net 28 points 1 year ago

mods have a log of all reports and actions against users, if you want to make sure this is a safe space for minority groups you must absolutely report things so that problematic users can be identified. its better to make a report and miss than to make no report at all imo

[-] zed_proclaimer@hexbear.net 41 points 1 year ago

not one upvote in 4 days, nobody even saw that probably. Not really indicative of a community wide problem that requires concern trolling over in the middle of zionist genocide

[-] RollaD20@hexbear.net 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yes and part of the reason I haven't said anything is precisely because I didn't want to tone police anyone at an exceptionally fucked up time. That being said, people asked for one example so I gave an example. There's no need to shift goal posts lol, I'm not making a huge accusation.

I think that for the most part it isn't a massive issue, but I think it's probably worth mentioning considering it is, regardless of size, present. Also, it's important to note at least one consequence of antisemitism in left spaces is that you drive away jews. I know many older jews that stopped engaging with leftist organizing when they were young due to antisemitism. Obviously, this is a privilege and these are not principled leftists nor anti-zionists but the point remains and jewish voices that are against Israel are necessary imo. They disrupt the narrative, it is harder to levy accusations of antisemitism (despite it still occurring), and so on. The only thing that antisemitism does is drive away jews and attract fascists. I don't see the harm in asking people to try to be more critical right now.

[-] zed_proclaimer@hexbear.net 32 points 1 year ago

I don't see the harm in asking people to try to be more critical right now.

Wreckers wrecking by making mountains out of molehills is absolutely a problem in all left spaces. It's concern trolling and accusations of anti-semitism are often used to do it - see the Labour party in UK being dismantled with these very tools. Get real, this isn't about how sad jews feel right now and there's no anti-semitism problem on hexbear so why is this thread needed at all

[-] RollaD20@hexbear.net 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I mean i'll be real if the people in the Labour party had been saying shit like what was in that comment I think the accusation would be warranted lmao, but this is not a political party.

I have seen antisemitism seems like others have too so there's been a mild call out. I think it's worth having one post about antisemitism. I don't view it as a waste of energy, much like I wouldn't view a thread on people calling other bigotries as being a waste. I'm not saying anything about tempering anger against Israel or the settlers. I'm just asking for some awareness around rhetoric. I understand why people approach accusations of antisemitism suspiciously as it is used cynically and frequently. You're right, I don't think this deserves to be turned into a huge struggle session. That being said, racism is insidious, and it also wrecks spaces. One post is not a mountain.

[-] dannoffs@lemmy.sdf.org 15 points 1 year ago

I was more calling OP out for lazy argumentation instead of casting aspersions on their actual claims. Refusing to provide a source and telling people to look for themselves in response to a good faith request screams "bad faith". Especially if you made the initial claim.

[-] CliffordBigRedDog@hexbear.net 11 points 1 year ago

Lol its the BMF alt

[-] Nagarjuna@hexbear.net 9 points 1 year ago

A blaqui slate and RollaD20 have dug some up

[-] Catradora_Stalinism@hexbear.net 26 points 1 year ago

they dug up fuck all, not any trends, but the expected wrecker exceptions

God hexbears can be so frustrating

[-] kristina@hexbear.net 29 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

@CARCOSA@hexbear.net could you trawl up nagarjuna's reports and make sure actions were taken? it seems like a serious accusation

[-] StellarTabi@hexbear.net 16 points 1 year ago

GOOD point, since OP was unable/uninterested in linking them, probably also he wasn't coming back to check later. I know when I report things I almost never come back just to check if they got removed.

[-] JohnBrownNote@hexbear.net 19 points 1 year ago

i don't know what "a lot" means but i've seen some suspicious use of currency symbols like we used to do with micro$oft and some "israel hypnotizes" which would be fine except for the tropes.

[-] anarchrist@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 1 year ago
[-] Shinhoshi@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 1 year ago

You mean like people titling posts with "Isr*el" instead of just saying it, or did I misunderstand?

[-] doublepepperoni@hexbear.net 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I think I saw someone using a dollar sign in "Israel" on the first few days this latest flareup started but they were called out on it

[-] Vncredleader@hexbear.net 12 points 1 year ago

I have grown annoyed with any name changes for a joke. It makes it harder to search for comments or topics when half the time people say "Isn'treal" or whatever

this post was submitted on 17 Oct 2023
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