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this post was submitted on 17 Oct 2023
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Personally, I don't recognize the 1948 decision to create this nation state out of thin air, displacing an already existing nation and illegally seizing their land. So I'm cool to keep talking about it as a terrorist organization, yeah? Okay, thanks.
Don't recognize it? There are 9 million people living in it, and worldwide recognition. Also the 48 decision was UN backed, meaning the nations of the world think otherwise. Jeez, you can not like someone while still admitting their existence.
Why do you equate Jewish people with Israel? That's a zionist stance, not a Jewish stance. Of course Jewish people exist - but let's not be arrogant enough to define a group of people by their one common characteristic and lump them all in together into one state, yeah?
I have no issues with Jewish people. At least not with those living outside Israel - those who moved there willingly did so at the expense of their own morals (provided they already had a good home somewhere else), as they knew they are displacing an existing culture. I do have some issues with:
The creation of Israel, done by lobbying the correct people with the correct incentives (the promise of keeping Muslims in the region at bay, and of being a trade partner for the backers), without any claim on the land - you know, as opposed to the people actually fucking living there at the time
Rich people exploiting the situation of Palestine pre-1948 to get richer. Also post-1948, let's not act like selling arms to the Israeli slaughterhouse to continue their genocide on Muslims isn't profitable for some immoral fucks.
The ethnic cleansing that's been going on in Palestine over the last 70 years
Governments of the world pretending human lives don't matter and that regions of land don't belong to the people inhabiting them (and who have done so for generations).
Appealing to those governments to form your opinion. The UN doesn't recognize Taiwan. Wanna stroke their dicks for it, or can we agree some massive conglomerate of rich and powerful old cunts that trade in blood don't really constitute a proper standard of morality?
Establishing a state based on a religion. I like the division of church and state, I think it's a good thing.
And so many others that I don't have the energy to type, as this is really not a black and white subject, but it's for sure not as gray as it's being painted. It's just another government installed in a region by external influences with superior firepower, with no rhyme or reason other than making money, like so many others in the world.
At the end of the day, this is my own opinion and the world as a whole doesn't seem to agree - especially since the people in charge don't really care if others agree or not, and since it's not a hot topic or something that impacts us daily, there will never be the type of mass protests necessary to stop funding this terrorist organization. And I'll probably die with this opinion, and nothing will change. In the meanwhile, what the fuck is your excuse for buying into the propaganda and supporting the 70 years of slaughter of a group of people?
Firstly, where did I mention jews? Israel have non-jews in it. But it's a valid point, Israel is a jewish point - a home for the jews after the Holocaust - which 100% needed to happen since they're persecuted all over the world. Even if you have no problem with jews, muslim states and nazis do.
Secondly, you shift all the blame of the situation on Israel, while they do have lots to blame for, so does the Palestinian leadership. They're the ones teaching hate speech in schools, promoting violence against civilians, and not looking for a peaceful resolution benefitting their people.
Thirdly, yes Israel likes being jewish and is working hard to keep being jewish, but that's their whole shtick. Does anybody blame Jordan or Egypt for being muslim by law? I certainly don't hear them as much as Israeli protestors. Which again further solidifies the need for a jewish state - there isn't a safe place for jews in this world but that state. Wanting to take that away is just wrong.
Also, I'd like you to keep in mind a simple point. How would arabs live under Israeli law (you can see examples in Israel right now - they have human rights) vs. how would jews live under Palestinian law (hint: they won't). Yes, it's wrong keeping gaza and the west bank under military power, but tbh what else can Israel do when suicide bombers arrive every day (and get praised heavily for it). The only solution is 2 states. Now after what Hamas did, I super doubt it is an option, and probably a total occupation of the land is eminent. Extremism brings extremism, and what Hamas did will make everything worse. That attack worsened the status quo, in the worst possible direction.
The decision didn't have gold fringe, so it isn't real.
There was no existing nation. Pre-47, it was British territory and before that, it was seized from the Ottoman Empire after WW1.
Simplistic statements about historical claims to territory will never work here. Nor will "keeping score" about whose team is getting revenge for what previous massacre and who's killed the most children (what a fucking thing to have to spell out. holy shit.).