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Matrix vs. XMPP, Security, Privacy, Apps, Efficiency ?
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this post was submitted on 02 Nov 2023
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Privacy
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Matrix is developed by a for profit entity, a group of venture capitalists and having a spec doesn't mean everything. XMPP is an open standard, truly open and if you notice you've had a lot of implementations of it all able to properly integrate with each other without effort.
The way Matrix is designed is to force into jumping through hoops and kind of draw all attention to Matrix itself instead of the end result. The kind of open collaboration where the protocol becomes mostly invisible for the end user isn't just the objective of Matrix.
Sorry, but nothing you mentioned has anything to do with Matrix not being an open protocol. I don't know what you mean by "truly open". It sounds like a "no true Scotsman" argument.
The spec is absolutely open, and you can see it in what I linked. There are also several servers and several clients if you don't like one written by the Matrix or Element folks. Heck, there's even a client for emacs! Now there are compatibility issues since not every server and client implements the entire protocol yet, but that's not an issue of openness. I used to run into problems all the time with XMPP way back when for similar reasons. I even recall something about Google breaking the XMPP protocol in some ways and causing problems.
I'm not even sure your claim of VC funding is true, since the faq mentions several non VC sources of funding. I couldn't find anything about VC at element.io, so maybe it's hidden there, or something has changed a matrix.org?
Still, discussion about not liking their business model is orthogonal to whether the protocol is open or not. Maybe we run the risk of them pulling a HashiCorp and changing some licensing down the road, which would be terrible. But I think it's dishonest to say it's not open.
Try contributing to the Matrix specs. It literally has a paywall (only contributing foundation members can do it) and basically any proposal that does not further the business goals of Element gets shot down by the overwhelming majority of Element employees or affiliates on the Matrix foundation board.
So while the protocol is open to use, it does not really fulfill the typical requirement of openess in so far that it is also open for contributions and changes.
This is totally different from the truly open standardisation process for XMPP where anyone can contribute freely and no single company dominates the process.
Edit: the VC funding is for Element / New Vector, but that company fully controls the Matrix Foundation.
no? anyone can send a spec proposal here. After discussion and implementation, it may well be accepted.
Sure, you can beg them to consider your proposal, but I hope you do realize that this isn't the same as an open standardization process, right?
sorry, goalpost moving isn't my favorite sport
The original objection was about it not being and "open protocol", which is not the same as having the source code of an implementation under an open source license.
That Matrix isn't an open protocol has always been one of the core objections against it. This isn't moving goal-posts, and if you fail to understand the original objection then why are you even commenting on it?
What is an open standardization process?
https://xmpp.org/about/standards-process/
This is xmpps open standardization process. Its good. Its also similar to matrix in that you propose and people comment on it. They both have the core elements needed to be an open standardization process. So stop gatekeeping.
No you fail to see the vital difference that the Matrix Foundation process is only open to paying members and that a single for-profit company is currently absolutly dominating the Foundation board that has the final say.
On the XSF anyone can easily become a member and get voted in a fair democratic election into the council. I know that several members are just community members with no corporate backing and they have the same if not more weight in the decision making as everyone else.
Then outline the ways they are different and source it.
I just did, and you can look up the how little oversight and accountability there really here: https://matrix.org/membership/
To look up who the guardians and core spec team is you can scroll to the bottom here: https://matrix.org/about/ (Note that basically all of them are very closely affiliated the Element the for-profit company).
Tl;dr the Matrix Foundation is a sham to hide that Element the company calls all the shots and has no interested at all in an truly open standards process.