40
submitted 1 year ago by IsoKiero@sopuli.xyz to c/linux@lemmy.ml

I think that installation was originally 18.04 and I installed it when it was released. A while ago anyways and I've been upgrading it as new versions roll out and with the latest upgrade and snapd software it has become more and more annoying to keep the operating system happy and out of my way so I can do whatever I need to do on the computer.

Snap updates have been annoying and they randomly (and temporarily) broke stuff while some update process was running on background, but as whole reinstallation is a pain in the rear I have just swallowed the annoyance and kept the thing running.

But now today, when I planned that I'd spend the day with paperwork and other "administrative" things I've been pushing off due to life being busy, I booted the computer and primary monitor was dead, secondary has resolution of something like 1024x768, nvidia drivers are absent and usability in general just isn't there.

After couple of swear words I thought that ok, I'll fix this, I'll install all the updates and make the system happy again. But no. That's not going to happen, at least not very easily.

I'm running LUKS encryption and thus I have a separate boot -partition. 700MB of it. I don't remember if installer recommended that or if I just threw some reasonable sounding amount on the installer. No matter where that originally came from, it should be enough (this other ubuntu I'm writing this with has 157MB stored on /boot). I removed older kernels, but still the installer claims that I need at least 480MB (or something like that) free space on /boot, but the single kernel image, initrd and whatever crap it includes consumes 280MB (or so). So apt just fails on upgrade as it can't generate new initrd or whatever it tries to do.

So I grabbed my ventoy-drive, downloaded latest mint ISO on it and instead of doing something productive I planned to do I'll spend couple of hours at reinstalling the whole system. It'll be quite a while before I install ubuntu on anything.

And it's not just this one broken update, like I mentioned I've had a lot of issues with the setup and at least majority of them is caused by ubuntu and it's package management. This was just a tipping point to finally leave that abusive relationship with my tool and set it up so that I can actually use it instead of figuring out what's broken now and next.

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[-] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

I really appreciate this thorough response. Are there arguments against immutability? Besides that it's probably a challenge to maintain...

[-] alt@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Are there arguments against immutability?

Initially I was typing out a very long answer, but it quickly got unwieldy 😅. So instead, this one will be oversimplified 😜.

Currently:

  • Package management on native system just takes considerably longer on most atomic^[1]^ distros. The exceptions would be Guix and NixOS, but unfortunately their associated learning curves are (very) steep compared to the other atomic distros.
  • The learning curve in general is steeper.
  • Documentation is lacking.
  • Big shifts occur more frequently^[2]^.
  • Some things simply don't work (yet).

One might (perhaps correctly) point out that most of these are actually more related to the technology lacking maturity. And that atomic distros would actually (already) net positively otherwise. Therefore, I'd argue, the transition to atomic distros is perhaps more akin to a natural evolution. I believe (at least) Fedora has already mentioned the possibility to sunset the non-atomic variant in favor of the atomic one when the time is there (or at least switch focus). Which is why I believe that atomicity will probably leave a lasting impact to the Linux landscape, similarly to what systemd has done in years prior.

Besides that it’s probably a challenge to maintain…

If your use-case is supported and you've acquired the associated knowledge for setup/configuration and maintenance, then I'd argue it's probably even easier than a non-atomic distro; simply by virtue of atomicity, increased stability and rollback-functionality. But, as has already been established previously, the learning curve is steeper in general, so getting there is probably harder. With the exception being those whose needs are satisfied easily by the accessible software found in the main package-'storefront'. Which makes distros like Endless OS very suitable for people whose primary interaction with 'computers' has been mobile phones and tablets, as the transition is -perhaps surprising to some- near flawless.


  1. Yes, that's how I'll be referring to them.
  2. Fedora Silverblue switching to OCI container images for delivery of installations and upgrades. openSUSE's offerings switching to image-based. Vanilla OS switching from Ubuntu to Debian and to a model that's a lot more similar to where Silverblue is headed towards. NixOS switching to flakes. etc
this post was submitted on 07 Nov 2023
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Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

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