69
IDF: Hamas command center found under Gaza children’s hospital; hostages were likely held there
(www.timesofisrael.com)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 14 Nov 2023
69 points (66.8% liked)
World News
38936 readers
2095 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Isn't this the video where they used things like a calendar with regular dates and claimed it was a list of Hamas members?
The entire area they showed looked like the power area of the hospital's basement, with various things on the walls and such that indicate hospital and nothing else.
Their only "evidence" in the videos was the pile of guns they showed, which...isn't really evidence of anything, especially since we have no way to tell if those were planted or not.
Reminds me of Russia's failed attempt to demonstrate that Nazis were in Ukraine by releasing photos of a 'bust' that was obviously staged and includes gems like multiple copies of The Sims video game which were supposed to be sim cards.
https://nypost.com/2022/04/25/russia-appears-to-confuse-the-sims-for-sim-cards-in-possible-staged-assassination-attempt/
This whole article is just bonkers.
It's so surreal it kind of makes me wonder if it's really a false flag, because they can't be that incompetent... Right?
It's not about being good. It's about generating headlines.
Something about generating doubt, uncertainty and cynicism.
Or they're just that incompetent. I could see that too
I mean, there are definitely Nazis fighting for Ukraine. As there were Nazis fighting for Wagner, it's not exactly a secret and they have the symbols right on their uniforms.
What?
Ukraine's problem with far-right nationalist militias was openly talked about in western media before the Russian invasion
https://archive.li/iNMNq (haaretz)
https://www.npr.org/2019/04/17/714413439/right-wing-groups-are-active-in-ukraine-as-country-heads-into-presidential-elect
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/380483-congress-bans-arms-to-controversial-ukrainian-militia-linked-to-neo-nazis/
Putin's claim that he's invading to "de-nazify" Ukraine is obviously nonsense since Wagner was literally named for Hitler's favorite composer but to pretend they don't have a neo-nazi problem is just ignoring reality.
What the other replies said. The Azov battalion is a notorious example.
As for Wagner, you can read about this lovely co-founder on Wikipedia.
Both sides are happy to have Nazis fighting for them, but the war itself doesn't have anything to do with ideology, it's a proxy war between Russia and NATO and purely about geopolitics.
copied from the Wikipedia page on the Azov-Battalion
"The unit has drawn controversy over its early and allegedly continuing association with far-right groups and neo-Nazi ideology,[13] its use of controversial symbols linked to Nazism, and early allegations that members of the unit participated in human rights violations.[14][15][16] Some experts have been critical of the regiment's role within the larger Azov Movement, a political umbrella group made up of veterans and organizations linked to Azov, and its possible far-right political ambitions, despite claims of the regiment's depoliticization.[17][8] Others argue that the regiment has evolved, tempering its neo-Nazi and far-right underpinnings as it became part of the National Guard.[18][19][9] The Azov Regiment has been a recurring theme of Russian propaganda.[20] The unit has been designated a terrorist group by Russia since August 2022.[21]"
Lol, yeah. I just had to explain how that kind of manipulation works.
Propaganda is a powerful force when it's used to reinforce an existing bias. Facts are irrelevant because you saw what you wanted to see.
Governments play the propaganda war hard. I am not picking sides over it: It is what it is.
Edit: Confirmation bias. That is the phrase I was referring to.
Yes lol. Apparently a terrorist militia command center is less well armed than a random house in Arizona. If you watch this video and are convinced by it, I have a bridge to sell you.
Especially with this coming on the heels of that almost pristine copy of Mein Kampf they were pushing as belonging to a Hamas member in a children's room the IDF partially blew up.
There's also that video of a "nurse" in perfectly clean scurbs with an Israeli accent that none of the real staff had ever seen before crying that Hamas had taken over the hospital.
Wow this whole thread is Hamas supporters! /s
It's hilariously bad, but you know brown people bad, Israel good apparently.
No, they didn’t.
They claimed it looks like a shift calendar where each terrorist signed in for his shift in guarding the hostages.
They showed much more than that, including equipment, clothes and a motorcycle that are suspected to have been used in the 7/10 atrocities.
They do say that they are still investigating and going over the evidence, but show and make it clear that they did find weapons and a command post inside the hospital.
Regarding the planted comment - well, if that's what you believe then it doesn't really matter what they show, doesn't it? You've already made up your mind and it doesn't matter what the evidence show..
Sorry, but showing pictures of guns, clothes and a motorcycle is not evidence. I don't care what the news is about or where it's from. True or not, this kind of thing needs independent reporting and third-party verification. Period.
When you see stories like this from any source, question everything. Showing pictures that confirm an existing bias is a powerful tool of manipulation, so please remember that.
Early in the Ukraine war, Russia was pushing the Nazi misinformation extremely hard. By the time fake news stories were debunked, it was too late. Russians were fully convinced that Ukraine was about to invade and old news getting debunked didn't matter.
This story is an example: https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-agents-the-sims-video-game-sting-operation-2022-4
Lets just say there are quite a few layers to the story I linked, so take it with a grain of salt. _It is just an example.
Of course, 100%.
Copying what I replied to another comment - I’d rather wait for an official report from the UN or an investigative story from an unbiased news outlet like Reuters (to decide whether this is authentic or propaganda).
You posted this to a World News community, but would have rather waited for it to be verified? Why post it in the first place if you're unsure of the credibility?
Then why did they lie about a calendar? What was the purpose of that exactly?
I'm unfamiliar with that, can you share more info? What was the lie and how it was disproven?
At 5:35 in the video in OP's link. People who can read Arabic called them out for what was literally a calendar with days listed. The IDF officer in the video claims it's a list of signed names from each Hamas member for their shift of guarding the room. But there's no names on it, it's just a calendar.
I'm very skeptical of this claim right here.
I didn't notice anything specific in the calendar itself, but when I used Google translate, the top of the calendar read:
"For the Battle of Toukan Al-Akher 10/23/7"
I'm assuming the date is October 7, 2023 and it's the result of Google mistranslating from Arabic, but that doesn't sound like a typical calendar.
I feel like people are trying to pretend the hostages were held nowhere.
EDIT: I zoomed in and translated again. I think Toukan was Toufan and this meant "Battle of Al-Aqsa Flood", obviously in reference to the Al Aqsa mosque and using the terminology that Palestinians use to describe October 7th.
The top line says "Battle of Al-Aqsa flood 10/7/23" but if you translate the rest of what's on that page its just the day of the week and date in each square. The IDF propagandist explicitly claims in the video that it is a guard shift list with people's names on it which is a blatant lie.
Yes, I agree. I noticed the days and saw no names. He seems to be wrong about what it says, but people in this thread seem to be wrong about it just being some random calendar.
I don't like to replace wrong information with wrong information.
I mean it is a random calendar with a specific day marked on it. That's pretty normal for a calendar.
The day isn't "marked" like in a calendar cell. It's the title of the calendar.
The days are crossed off with a yellow highlighter until November 3rd. From what I know, it's unclear why they stopped marking on that day.
You're right, good catch.
It's a very strange mistake to make on their part, I assume the IDF has many Arabic speakers.
It'll be very interesting to see how everything else in the video will unfold.
No its not, its purposeful disinformation from a group trying to justify war crimes.
Occam's razor applies here, and so we look for the simplest, most likely explanation (going by past example). And that explanation is Israeli misinformation. They've done it before.
Are you serious? The simplest explanation is misinformation and not an honest mistake or slip of the tongue? The person presenting the information doesn't speak fluent English and most likely doesn't speak fluent Arabic either.
Considering that:
1-The Israeli government is notorious for using misinformation when it fits their purposes,
2-They have fluent Arabic speakers who could've easily checked the evidence, and
3-There's no way to mistake a calendar for a list of Hamas soldiers,
the answer is yes. It's like if Russia was caught lying with faked evidence and then said "oh it was a mistake".
If they couldn't read it but claimed to know what it says then it's a lie, not just a mistake.
Disproven? It wasn’t proven in the first place.
Disproved in the context of the claims.
I understand what you meant. What I’m saying is that those claims would have to be proven before they can be disproven. 
I don't think you've even watched the video you linked
The infowar continues, and Bidens choices have brought in neo-progressives to help the Israelis.
Sure, Biden did this. They found them in the hospital basement right next to the calendar and stack of planted guns. 
Ummm....
You mean the hostage room full of hostages Israel wants back?
Ya. My money is on full planted disinformation aimed at justifying slaughter of innocents.