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Meta and Mastodon – What’s really on people’s minds? - Ian Betteridge
(ianbetteridge.com)
A community dedicated to fediverse news and discussion.
Fediverse is a portmanteau of "federation" and "universe".
Getting started on Fediverse;
There are zero mature federated ecosystems where this statement is true. While the freedom to (dis)associate is foundational to federated systems as an abuse management tool, it's existentially dangerous when deployed as an idealogical weapon or negotiating lever.
In all these cases, there were phases where the network was immature and these squabbles did happen. But players who isolated themselves lost relevance, and eventually the value of connecting to the wider network (with all of the challenges and opportunities that brings), became greater than the value of winning any other dispute.
This idea that de-peering everyone you don't like is normal and how marginalized communities get protected is only popular right now for a short while because the fediverse only just barely matters at all, and almost everyone is willing to disrupt the health of the network is truly painful ways for any reason or no reason. If the fediverse doesn't kill itself with infighting, the groups that find ways to address their disputes while remaining connected will come to form the fediverse that matters.
Of course, anyone who disagrees can defederate with anyone and everyone if they wish. But in so doing, they limit their own reach and relevance until eventually they're left alone talking to themselves on a fedi-desert-island. I get marginalized communities not wanting to deal with the hassle of a growing network, but getting marginalized stories heard is one of the key ways to improve things going forward and defederate-first-ask-questions-later doesn't help there.
The point of the article is not that defederation should be used as a management tool, but that it can be very effective in protecting the fediverse from becoming a monopoly play among big corps only.
See, you said it yourself, "don’t see tier 1 ISPs de-peering each other", "don’t see major providers blackholing major providers", "major players don’t de-peer other major players", you talk about big players only not blocking each other, but that misses the point of small players being blocked out by the big ones.
quote from the article:
That's the risk, corporations are not stupid, they see the potential in the fediverse right now but they have the nasty habit of "embracing, extending - not always extinguishing but making it almost impossible for new competitors to enter the market".
They could totally ruin the fediverse if left unchecked.
@PriorProject @PorkrollPosadist
All the examples you provided were infrastructure, not social communities, so I think it's a poor comparison.
Instead, I'd compare AP federation to _social_ constructs. Communities, clubs, groups of friends. Even larger constructs like cities or nation states.
In _those_ examples it's clear that limiting association is commonplace and healthy.
No, but they intentionally cripple peering to blackmail others into paying extra or move their data-centers into the network of these bad-actor ISPs. Happens all the time sadly.
Keyword "major". Everyone else is pretty much defederated these days, which is the point the article was trying to make.
Read up on history. You have this completely backwards. It took many years of government intervention to force them to open their networks. And in some countries banks still don't interoperate or charge obscene rates for it.
I have nothing backwards because I said nothing about cause and effect, you appear to have fabricated some historical error about regulation so you could have something to condescend to me about. But even so, regulators did not invent cross-network calls nor did they invent inter-bank transfers. Both of these industries had those things prior to regulatory mandates and went through "wild west" periods that have clear parallels to the fediverse today (the early 1900s for telephones and the 17th century for banks) when interoperation existed but was quite selective. My point was that mature federated ecosystems converge on valuing connectivity very highly, and the fact that this value was so clear in these two cases that it was eventually encoded in law supports rather than refutes that claim.